00:00:03:20 - 00:00:30:01
Unknown
You come to me when I'm lonely. I take your hand and we go home. You cover me with your face. You with my.

00:00:30:03 - 00:00:55:10
Sasha
Spring is a time of regeneration for the earth. But also for our bodies and souls. It's a safe bet to say that all of us want to evolve into the person we are always in the process of becoming. But just because we desire growth doesn't make it easy. In fact, sometimes shamanic soul healing can be a terrifying, harrowing experience.

00:00:55:13 - 00:01:32:14
Sasha
Reverend Laura Gonzalez was born and raised in Mexico City. She is a resident bruja, a psychic terrorist, as well as a dedicated community activist advocating pagan, LGBT and women's rights. In today's episode, Laura shares a terrifying in between world shamanic experience, humorous tale about a music loving ghost and why some spirits just want to be noticed. Laura explains how to lay down personal boundaries for a disembodied energy, all the while respecting their dignity.

00:01:32:16 - 00:02:11:07
Sasha
Because everything in this world is about relationships. Even when it comes to humans and the ghosts that haunt us. So grab your spirit animal through a tasty potion and get comfortable. Because I'm your host, Sasha Graham, and this is Ghost Stories by the Fire company. Lovely lady. Laura, thank you for joining us. I'm so excited to have you here.

00:02:11:10 - 00:02:23:13
Laura
Thank you so much for the invitation. And yeah, I'm excited because I usually don't talk about this things. You know, they're not to welcome or on other platforms.

00:02:23:15 - 00:02:36:03
Sasha
how interesting. So. Well, let's start. Let's start right out the gate with could you share one of the most spooky ghost experiences that you've ever experienced?

00:02:36:05 - 00:03:13:11
Laura
I have one. I have a number of them, but one of the spookiest ones when I had just decided to okay, I'm embracing being a witch. I'm embracing, you know, I'm coming out of the proverbial broom closet and all of that. I started having this experiences at night. You know, when you're when you're in between, you're not deep asleep, but you're not awake.

00:03:13:14 - 00:03:39:27
Laura
And it was really horrible because I am laying down and, you know, kind of like the sleep paralysis demon thing. Yes. And it was a witch. And she was horror. But but she was like the archetypical bright green nose, the whole shebang, big hat. And she was hovering right above me and she was looking at me in the eyes.

00:03:39:27 - 00:04:12:19
Laura
And and she was hovering like she was floating. And I couldn't move and I couldn't speak. And I couldn't do anything. And and she said to me, are you really a witch? Are you sure you're really a witch? And I was like, I remember that. I was trying to speak and I started coughing and again, is this stage where you're not awake, where you're not sleeping?

00:04:12:21 - 00:04:33:26
Laura
And I started pulling stuff out of my mouth and it was like, I know people are going to get grossed out, but kind of like literally where you pull out of your shower, drain the hair, the water, the soap. Yeah, all of that was coming out of my mouth. And it was like. Like the like the cloud, right?

00:04:34:04 - 00:05:15:20
Laura
Like it wasn't ended. And then I finally was able to breathe, Right. So that happened in a dream dreamlike state. So, of course, the next couple of days. So I'm a little nervous, you know, because, like, that's a horrible dream. And coming from a mexican Catholic background and I do Catholic because it's very infused with indigenous beliefs and pagan traditions, but it the fear is so ingrained in our psyche that, you know, I was navigating on fear for for a few moments, for a few days.

00:05:15:22 - 00:05:57:04
Laura
And then things started happening around my bedroom, you know, like. Like things will fall. Like a picture frame will fall, you know? And one of those like, tripod things, like if somebody push it and and I will see her, they're all coming by, like between my bedroom and the living room and the kitchen. There's like a little hallway, and I will see her pass between the kitchen and the and the bedroom.

00:05:57:07 - 00:06:20:04
Laura
And again, you know, I was very new to embracing this publicly. Like I've just told my mom, you know, like I don't consider myself Catholic anymore. And my husband has always been very okay with me being general, just the weirdo. But it was me coming out very publicly.

00:06:20:06 - 00:06:21:12
Sasha
Yes.

00:06:21:15 - 00:06:55:13
Laura
And I just keep looking at her. And it happened a couple of times. And then I have this dream again. But again, like in a dream state in between where I'm at a sense like an old timey house, the woman kind of like South Sutter. And look, all United States sounds happening like we see in the movies.

00:06:55:15 - 00:06:56:09
Sasha
Yes.

00:06:56:12 - 00:07:27:05
Laura
And the mirrors were covered with lace. All the mirrors work over with lace. And I'm sitting there with this woman doing the sense and they're trying to call the spirit and the trunk the spirit. And I assume that I'm sitting there with them, calling on the spirit, but then I find myself floating on the couch on the room, and I move delays in the mirror and there's no reflection.

00:07:27:07 - 00:07:56:22
Laura
And so I'm like, I'm the spirit. So it was like other witches calling me, but out of my body. And so that that was extremely that was more scary than the horror in which and again, it's not a dream, but it's not a wake. You stepped in between and that did it. The thing with the lace, I was very, very angry because I'm like, How dare you pull me out of my body?

00:07:56:22 - 00:08:21:19
Laura
Like, who do you think you are? You know, and some other certain words that I don't know if I can sit here. And so what I did is say, I created a circle here at home. At that time, I was practicing very, very like elemental Wicca, right? So I created an altar and I put all the elements and I call all the quarters.

00:08:21:19 - 00:08:52:28
Laura
And I did the whole, you know, three steps to the left to right, the whole, like very ritualistic. And I just told her just to answer your question, yes, I'm a witch and you're not welcome here. And unless you have information that you want to share and you were always super clear and not spooky, you need to get the bleep out of my house and you need to get the bleep out of my dreams.

00:08:53:01 - 00:09:09:21
Laura
Yes. And just get the heck out of here. And I could feel her passing through and out the window. So that was really scary. That was really scary.

00:09:09:23 - 00:09:54:03
Sasha
I literally have had the exact same experience to the to the point of the first story. The first the first part of that I had been doing it was the summer where I had been doing intense yoga, intense pranayama. My I was still doing my regular tarot and magical work. And I love how you just described it. Was is it first of all, you talking about the in-between state where you're not a weight, but you're not asleep and you're cognizant of what's happening, yet you can't move with that sleep paralysis and you're cognizant of an energy.

00:09:54:05 - 00:10:27:00
Sasha
And I the way you just described it was it was what came out of your throat was like what you pull out of your shower drain that clumps of hair and more. That is exactly it. It is it is the most I'm getting sick to my stomach just thinking about it now. I'm wow. Thank you. I am just I'm I usually I see other people when I do go stories by the fire, the live events people think really happy because they've had similar experiences.

00:10:27:00 - 00:10:53:14
Sasha
But you're the first person who's described exactly exactly what I went through as well. And there was a there was something there that I don't know if it was. I took it to mean that I was being cleansed of of, of, of darkness. How did what do you what do you think of that black sludge that came out of your your esophagus, essentially?

00:10:53:16 - 00:11:22:13
Laura
First of all, that the feeling is very real, right? You can literally feel in it pulling out of your esophagus, right? You can breathe. It's like can you at the same time and like most humans, I'm disgusted to clean the drain in the shower. Right when you have to do it is part of the maintenance of your living quarters.

00:11:22:15 - 00:11:52:29
Laura
But even though I have lived a magical life my whole life, I'm very skeptical. And I really like to rationalize almost everything that goes on. And so in talking to my magical partner, friend, colleague, Christian artist, we were were we were both talking about the importance of particular for me. Well, for humans, right. Your windpipe, the ability to breathe you have ruin is a thing.

00:11:53:05 - 00:12:11:07
Laura
All right? But all the work that I do, Sasha, is through my voice, right? So I do my healing side of my journey inside of my through podcast counseling, etc., is my voice.

00:12:11:10 - 00:12:45:00
Laura
And I think for the most part, I have lived my life without censoring what I say. You know, I have always been like pushing against the status quo and just speaking my mind. Because as a brown indigenous Mexican woman, you know, the planet will want me to just be quiet and so it felt very symbolic that it was like a cleanse, like you say, you know, it's like a cleanse.

00:12:45:02 - 00:13:13:09
Laura
And then the floodgates open and then you can say whatever you want. And it felt very symbolic to me, kind of like, okay, if you're really it was almost like a rite of passage, you know, from the other side, from the other realms, from the other dimensions that are you're really it. And are you going to show me how you how you deal with it, you know?

00:13:13:11 - 00:13:35:20
Laura
So that was amazing. And, and after that, I've never dreamt about her again. I'd never feel her presence again. And I have other stories, you know, from when I was younger and I couldn't wait to come to your show and, like, talk about the, like, the super funny ones. But because they could be so funny when they want to.

00:13:35:22 - 00:13:50:13
Sasha
And I would love for you to share to share a funny one as well. But, but, but before you do have so have you had any sort of between worlds, between world experiences, not awake, not asleep, but somewhere in between since then.

00:13:50:15 - 00:14:17:06
Laura
Yes. Yes. This is and I was debating if I share this or not. And I think we're so far removed from the beginning of 2020. It was four years ago, around this time of the year, right where we all went inside. And all of you have covered you were a pariah, whatever. And I was like, such common place, right?

00:14:17:06 - 00:14:46:18
Laura
Like the sort of caller is a cobra. But back then I had covered I'm one of the O.G. Sasha. I'm one of the first people who had it. So original COVID and now May of 2020. I've never disclosed this publicly before until right now. And there is a reason I was watching this show. The handmaiden to her handmaiden Tales Right.

00:14:46:20 - 00:14:50:00
Sasha
Hands made The Handmaid's Tale. Yes.

00:14:50:03 - 00:15:23:06
Laura
In the show itself is scary. We're we're living in. So it's really scary. So the show itself is scary. I was watching the show before I got sick. Then I got sick. Then I got very sick at one point, my husband and I decided that if we got sick, we were going to stay home. That is a conscious decision that we make because going to the hospitals in 2020 was very scary.

00:15:23:06 - 00:15:52:15
Laura
Right? And he and I decided we are going to deal with it. We're going to deal with it at home. And so we both got it. He got very sick on his stomach and I got very sick on my respiratory. Right. I had pneumonia. And there was a couple of days where I was just like sleeping and waking up to go to the bathroom and maybe have a drink of water and go back to sleep.

00:15:52:17 - 00:16:21:05
Laura
And at one point I have this in-between stage and I was on the couch. I'm telling you, between my bedroom and the kitchen, there's a little hallway and there's a couch and I'm on the couch and I'm I think I was delirious with fever or something. Right? Or maybe lack of oxygen, but only the God is nuzzling. And on my kitchen threshold, there's not a door, but there is a doorway.

00:16:21:08 - 00:16:46:18
Laura
And there she was, the main character from The Handmaid's Tale in there she was. And she was so me. Come on, come on. We have to escape, you know we have to escape. You know, we have to go. But I could see through her face that it wasn't her. It was a dark entity. It was it was a black, black color, black, super black entity.

00:16:46:21 - 00:17:19:02
Laura
Like black smoke. But when she spoke, she transfixing to the character from The Handmaid's Tale. And she she was so insistent, you know, kind of like this transmitting, transmitting the desperation of the show. Right. We need to scare. We need to God, I never finish watching the show because you cannot make me watch that show again, period. Yeah, but the feeling, Sasha, because she was so insistent.

00:17:19:05 - 00:17:47:27
Laura
We have to go. We have to go now. We have to escape. But it was kind of like when a video is glitching and you kind of see other things behind the the person's face. It was like that and it was just black smoke. And I was like in my delirium in my room. So my conscious, the state, I was like, hell no.

00:17:48:00 - 00:18:15:07
Laura
I'm the woman from this couch. No, I'm not going anywhere. And with whatever force I had mentally, I think I don't think I spoke the words, but I think that in my mind I told her, like, you need to leave. So I was I was still kind of like guarding my house and also which kind of like put in those guards open like, no, you need to leave.

00:18:15:07 - 00:18:37:02
Laura
And I was in that state of semi-conscious for like three days. Four days, you know, just sleep and drinking, gone to pee and coming back to bed. It was really it was scary. And again, I never told anybody before because nobody's business. But it's worse to tell the story because it was very scary. That was very, very scary.

00:18:37:05 - 00:19:06:10
Sasha
Well, I appreciate the fact, though, that you explain as far as that the first witch story about the in-between world space. So I think it's important for people to remember that they're not helpless in a situation like that, that you can ask the energy or order of the energy because it is your home and your personal home is your personal private space, and you have the right to lay down boundaries, just as you would with a living human.

00:19:06:12 - 00:19:27:06
Sasha
So I appreciate the fact that you shared how you did a ritual, how oftentimes you can just say, like, get out and that and that will work. Because I think that like we live in we live in the world of tarot and magic, and it can be horrifying and terrifying for us. So I can imagine how that feels for people.

00:19:27:09 - 00:19:50:23
Sasha
So, wow, I appreciate that. So did you do any after that, The Handmaid's Tale creep like it sounded like that energy was like wearing the Halloween like wearing a Halloween costume of that character from the from the show. Did you do anything after that, like in your waking life, or did you know you had sent in a way in.

00:19:50:28 - 00:20:22:20
Laura
You know, you know what happened at that moment? And this is very visceral. This is a very animal reaction, right? The hairs standing up like a cat. Right. So during in that experience, I could feel that I've talked with a lot of people about the COVID times of what COVID was and take it with a grain of salt right.

00:20:22:21 - 00:21:20:15
Laura
A lot of people believed that this was kind of like a thoughtless energy that just came and devour and left. And I won't be offensive to the millions of people who perished through COVID. But I heard a lot of people describing the virus as black smoke. Black will not, not demonic, not diabolic, just hungry and devouring. Right. So at that moment when I'm in between elucidating bubblegum, I think that I unconsciously in a survival mode, I true all of the virus malignant whatever energy push it out of my body and they got push into my hair.

00:21:20:18 - 00:21:46:13
Laura
Don't ask me how I did it. It was very like I say, like an animal reaction, like a very survival with a lizard. When a lizard gets cut by their tail, they cut the tail and they go away so they can survive right. You feel almost like that, You know, like the older illnesses needed to go into my hair.

00:21:46:15 - 00:22:12:11
Laura
And again, Sasha, I love you. And I'm sharing all this. I've never I kept under wraps for four years. I've never showed anyone. So what I did once I recovered my health, thank you, God, as she said, like knowing your state, the first order of business was going to the hairdresser. Now I chop about 12 inches of my hair.

00:22:12:13 - 00:22:31:14
Laura
So if y'all want to go back into my Facebook or Instagram four years ago, you'll see when I was like, I just cut my hair because I cut a good foot length off of hair and I'm like, I think that's how it just kind of got cleansed of me.

00:22:31:16 - 00:22:56:22
Sasha
Thank you. Thank you for sharing this for the first time with us and for everybody who's listening. And I also feel as if things sometimes don't make sense or make sense in the way that you know. And so, again, like, I just I really appreciate that because I think it makes other people not feel so alone when they're in situations like that.

00:22:56:28 - 00:23:22:24
Laura
Yeah, because it was like a cleanse, right? It was like literally, like which limb can be sacrificed. It was not going to be in my lungs. Right, Right. So which limb, which part of me can I push all of this illness? Doors so I can just be gone? Be gone? and the thing is, after COVID, my hair just started fuller.

00:23:22:26 - 00:23:40:27
Laura
And, you know, I have a whole bunch of hair. Sasha I used to have like this, so a lot of my hair started falling after COVID. And that's when I decided, like, let me just cut the hair. And I got a very, very short kind of like down to my ears, which I haven't done since I was a child.

00:23:40:29 - 00:24:02:28
Laura
And yeah, I and then I started feeling like a lot better. So, you know, I guess just go with your intuition. Go with your instinct. We're animals. We are so adamantly tried to forget that we're animals, but we are animals. And so we feel the things and we need to pay attention to the things that we feel.

00:24:03:00 - 00:24:10:20
Laura
And we need to pay attention to what our bodies telling us to do to counteract the harm.

00:24:10:23 - 00:24:43:23
Sasha
I so appreciate you saying that. Something. Something I've been working on a lot lately. I think I had read it in a Deepak Chopra book or something about letting life move through you that that we're not really living life, that life is actually living us. And I love this idea and I've been playing with it. And it's funny because since I've been trying to let life move through me, I've had two one experience I just had yesterday when I had a couple of weeks ago, both kind of life and death situations.

00:24:43:25 - 00:25:11:26
Sasha
And I something else took over and I let it move through me. And in the first situation, you know, I averted a horrible accident. And in the second situation, I, I came to the aid of someone else and it was not me consciously moving. It was something else. But I let that other thing kind of move through me and to to what I assume was a really beautiful, safe thing.

00:25:11:26 - 00:25:16:21
Sasha
So this is important stuff.

00:25:16:24 - 00:25:43:20
Laura
Absolutely. To pay attention to your gut and the hair on the back of your head. And it's the goosebumps that you feel and the idea on your arms or your legs and wherever they present themselves and to really learn from your intuition and how your intuition talks to you. Because my intuition is going to talk to me one way.

00:25:43:20 - 00:26:07:29
Laura
Your intuition is one way. So I cannot teach you or share with the with the people who are listening. How do you work to understand your intuition? You listen, you feel you stop trying to rationalize it. And therein lies the mystery, because it's very personal.

00:26:08:02 - 00:26:27:15
Sasha
It is so personal, and no one else can do it for you. That's why even though I write books, I'm like to my students. Throughout your books, you have to figure out how it works for you. And you can only do that through trial and error and using tools and just paying attention. Just paying attention is so super helpful.

00:26:27:20 - 00:26:34:00
Sasha
Would you share something, some funny ghost story I love of? I haven't heard a lot of funny ghost stories.

00:26:34:03 - 00:27:06:04
Laura
This is hilarious. You're going to love it. So this happened in Mexico. I'm Mexican from Mexico. I was born and raised in Mexico. I'm from Mexico City. And so my school was like 30 minutes on public transportation from my house and I had to be school by 645 because classes started at seven. So it was a very early morning every morning, which is not my nature.

00:27:06:07 - 00:27:50:23
Laura
And my brother at the time gifted me an old stereo. I mean, we're talking about 35 years ago, right? 35 years ago, that stereo was old. It was a turntable and it had a eight track cassette thing and then a regular cassette tape player in the radio, you know, one of those big turntables. And so every morning I will wake up in the morning, probably like 5:00 in the morning, wake up, take a shower, do my hair, get dressed, get my book bag, go to school, have cereal or whatever, cup of coffee, you know, different countries and culture.

00:27:50:23 - 00:28:23:18
Laura
We standard cereal every morning. And so I will wake up and I will serve the radio, you know, and I remember that I used to listen to like Spanish rock from the eighties or English music disco oldies. Back then there were all of these, you know, like 6 to 7, these disco. So it was either disco or Spanish rock.

00:28:23:21 - 00:28:56:19
Laura
And then suddenly my radio stations start changing, you know, like first I thought, you know, white noise, interference, FM radio, you know, we don't have none of this digital stuff. I like it. Well, yeah, but then days go by and it keeps happening. So now I'm paying attention and I can see the knob on the radio move, moving.

00:28:56:21 - 00:29:23:21
Laura
So I'm like, Hey, leave my radio alone. And I can see the knob moving and the needle moving between stations. And I'm like, Okay, that's kind of spooky. And, you know, days go by and then weeks go by and then search happening again. And now it happens a little more often. And it's always in the morning when I'm getting ready to go to school.

00:29:23:23 - 00:30:12:25
Laura
And I've always been very psychic, very intuitive. So I was spooked but not terrified. Right. And so it can happen. And now it happens more often and more often. And now it's like happen. And every morning it's something you get it really bold. So I'm like, I'm going to outsmart whatever this is. So I grab one of my cassette tapes with Spanish rock and I put the cassette tape and I press play and I'm like, Haha, the police think I'm going to learn Spanish and you know, I'm going to listen to my rock.

00:30:12:27 - 00:30:58:10
Laura
And then the music stop the hook and I turn around Sasha, the cassette tape player, which was eighties, but the pass was passed. It hit the pause button and for all the children here, there were big buttons that you had to push and they were hard to put because this is a tape recording that is playing now. You have to stop that rhythm from going and you had to press the pause button that moved the player down so the words were heavy.

00:30:58:10 - 00:31:35:03
Laura
To click to press. The stop would have been easier to press than the pause. So it pauses and then I got released. But I'm like, this one is a strong one. It can pause the video, you know, the stereo. So, you know, I go home, I go to school, and of course I'm all spooked and I come back home and we're having lunch where my mom, my sister and myself.

00:31:35:05 - 00:32:02:08
Laura
And we had just moved to that apartment not long ago. So in the corner of the apartment, we have another stereo, like a nursery. So there was like in the living room and there's piles and piles of cassette tapes. Right. And for those who don't remember, think about the size of your cell phone. Almost. But a little thicker, right?

00:32:02:11 - 00:32:26:12
Laura
Like a three by five sort of. And there's like a bunch of piles of cassette tapes. You know, there's five siblings in a household. You know, there's a lot of music differences, etc.. So there's a bunch of but they're all on the underside piled on top of each other. So we're having a lot of commute at 3:00 in Mexico.

00:32:26:12 - 00:32:51:03
Laura
It's not lunch is not dinner is in between. So we're eating and I'm telling my mom and my sister now, my mom is also very intuitive, kind of witchy. You know, my sister is the biggest skeptic that ever existed. She don't believe in nothing. She sings. We're woo woo and we're cuckoo and all of that. So I'm telling them this has been happening.

00:32:51:05 - 00:33:22:04
Laura
And then this morning the cassette tape got passed and my mom tells me, Have you asked this ghost what I want to listen to? And I'm like, No, it's my morning, it's my radio. I'm going to listen to what I want to listen in my mom because she's my mom. She's like, Well, next time it happens, ask it, Why do you want to listen to?

00:33:22:06 - 00:33:59:14
Laura
So I roll my eyes, you know, and I'm like, okay, you ghost, What do you want to listen to? And that cassette tape flies off the pile hoovers in the space for 2 seconds, and then it falls to the ground. And all my mom and I look at each other like, okay, my sister was transparent. I mean, all the color dropped on my sister.

00:33:59:14 - 00:34:27:09
Laura
And my sister was like, What just happened? And then, of course, I'm spooked. I mean, it's a whole cassette tape hovering in the air for 2 seconds and then full in the floor. I'm like, okay, we all saw it right? Okay. All I gather, all my courage, I get up and I pick up the cassette tape. And of course, this is a cumbia music.

00:34:27:11 - 00:34:56:00
Laura
I mean, I like cumbia, but I was a teenager, you know, I was into rock, says cumbia music that we put on when we were at a party. When we're celebrating, you know, it's very like, very lively, very danceable. It's like first party music. Yeah. And I tell my mom, look, is this one you know, Chelsea Computer was the name of the band, you know, singer named Cello, this wonderful Mexican singer in Spanish.

00:34:56:00 - 00:35:20:03
Laura
I don't know if she's Mexican. And then the band chill on her band. And I don't know what it was to hear Chelsea Handler. And then my mom says, like, well, play. So we play the cassette from one end to the other. We were singing all the songs. We were having a good time. It ended one side with Flip, did we play the other side?

00:35:20:03 - 00:35:45:12
Laura
We were singing, we were happy. And then when when the cassette and I told it like, You're done. You cannot come. I'm messed up with my stream, with my music in the morning setting work because you're scaring me. And that was a so once again.

00:35:45:15 - 00:36:07:17
Sasha
Once again, you were proactive. Your whole family was proactive with this ghost chef he was teaching. You're teaching everyone valuable lessons and you have a night that's I mean, and to the ghosts credit, you guys had a fun, a fun hour. So listening to.

00:36:07:19 - 00:36:32:01
Laura
And I call it my my goes by leather, you know, those dancing ghosts or party ghosts, if you will. Combining shadow and shadow is like somebody that likes cumbia and they like to dance to the cumbia beat and and I invite you all to Google cumbia because there's like a really good kind of music to dance and have fun.

00:36:32:03 - 00:36:33:19
Sasha
I'll put a link into the show.

00:36:33:19 - 00:37:06:28
Laura
Yeah, Yeah. I can actually guide you to the exact music that we listen to so people can listen to, particularly one song called El Foco that I think is the funniest one on that album. But yeah, like I believe that sometimes this entities are disembodied humans that are just hanging around this planet because they want to hang around in this dimension because life is beautiful.

00:37:07:00 - 00:37:29:17
Laura
And why wouldn't you want to hang around even if you don't have a body anymore? And it is truly my belief, Sasha, that people like you and I that can see things like this that we walk around with kind of like a like a light or a marker or something that they can see kind of like on the Sims game, right?

00:37:29:17 - 00:37:57:13
Laura
Like with the little boy light here. And then they come to us because we can hear them and, and this guy just wanted some good music, you know, like, Hey, I'm here, I know you like music, I like music, but I don't like your music. Can you play some of my music so I can have some a good time?

00:37:57:16 - 00:38:10:14
Laura
And ultimately, my dear friend, we all want to be seen. We all want to be acknowledged. We all want to be recognize. And I don't think that not having the body changes that.

00:38:10:16 - 00:38:35:05
Sasha
I so agree with everything invisible, invisible that is incarnated in this world and what is on the other side? I believe many everything, including divinity itself and the creative principle, wants to be seen just as much as you and I do. And that's why our attention is our magic. What do you know? And that's why what we see lights up.

00:38:35:05 - 00:38:39:09
Sasha
Because it's not just us seeing. It's a too it's a two way.

00:38:39:14 - 00:39:09:18
Laura
Yeah, it's a relationship. It is a relationship. And yeah, sometimes it can be scary and sometimes it can be. They startle you and you know, when you're vulnerable in your sleep, in and all that. But I think it's good to remember that we are three dimensional ones. Yeah, this is our realm. We have the upper hand. We have a head in, we have bodies, right?

00:39:09:18 - 00:39:48:29
Laura
We belong to this incarnation, to this realm, and we're all here. And on the other side, Well, there are other dimensions that we don't understand. And they belong to that dimension. That's where they rule. And that's why it's so hard for us to talk to God to them, because it's like how? But. But that dream of me going into the mirror and me being the spectrum that made me think a lot about how are we perceived when we are the ones going to other dimensions.

00:39:49:01 - 00:39:59:18
Laura
Are we the scary ones on the other dimension? Yeah. And all is like it is really a whole lot of food for thought.

00:39:59:21 - 00:40:15:18
Sasha
I love that. I love you. I'm curious, just based on your experience, obviously there's no right or wrong answer. Where do you think you were before you were born and where do you think we're all going after? We pass on?

00:40:15:20 - 00:40:54:02
Laura
I love this question. I love this question. This is not my idea. This is something I learned from one of my long, long, long time friends and my first mentor into pagan witchcraft, my dear friend Marty Koch. They used to say our souls or energy or life essence is like Silly putty, right? Like. Like Play-Doh. And so Creator Lo Aniversario.

00:40:54:02 - 00:41:34:09
Laura
So whatever you want to call her goddess, whatever you want to call once her bodies are expired pixel or SS Right. And sticks it on the pile of Play-Doh and keeps amassing that right and then playing with the dough and not needing kneading is not amassing as needed. So we are we literally are one. We I truly believe that that is the how or, or that is the theory that I really like.

00:41:34:12 - 00:41:42:10
Laura
And then when a nobody comes into existence, right as it comes into existence, as it crosses the threshold.

00:41:42:12 - 00:41:43:05
Sasha
Yes.

00:41:43:07 - 00:42:24:11
Laura
I don't believe it. Before we cross the threshold, being born physically into, I think that at that moment the creator grabs a bunch of Silly Putty and sticks it inside of that. Nobody that is now existent and rinse and repeat because why do we see so much of ourselves in other people? Why do we create this bonds with certain friends, with our lovers, with our partners.

00:42:24:13 - 00:42:56:10
Laura
And it's not the twin flame thing. I personally don't believe, especially lately with what horrible people are doing in the name of Twin Flames. When I'm talking about Google, it, I'm not in a twin flame way, but in a way in which we truly are. Oneness and energy cannot be destroyed and we are energy. Ergo, that energy needs to congregate somewhere and then separate to create the next person.

00:42:56:10 - 00:43:20:18
Laura
Right? And then when that person's bodies expire, that energy needs to go back to congregate and mixes. Right? Because this like it's like you have a cup of water and then I throw some of this Diet Coke into the water is going to mix. Right. But the water is going to have a little bit of that, that Coke, the Diet Coke is going to have a little bit of the water.

00:43:20:18 - 00:44:00:12
Laura
So I see you. You see me, but I also see me in you and you see you with me. Right. And I think that's why because we all come from we all come from the goddess and the shall return you like that. That's what I think. And I think that we don't have memory of it because some of that memory is kind of because it gets too much to move around and yeah, but we certainly conserved some of ancestral memories.

00:44:00:12 - 00:44:33:01
Laura
The name formation, I think is because I see it a lot with my indigenous community that as we are rediscovering and reconnecting after all the colonization atrocities, a lot of us feel like memories. If we were not alive 500 years ago. But we are rediscovering and reconnecting and kind of like going back to practice like our ancestors did in some of the is like muscle memory.

00:44:33:04 - 00:44:36:16
Laura
And it was like, why does it feel so familiar.

00:44:36:18 - 00:44:52:20
Sasha
And not interesting? I love that. Thank you so much for being on. Did you have any others funny stories you wanted to share before we close out? What?

00:44:52:23 - 00:45:18:15
Laura
Yeah, I guess speaking specifically of entities, that could be scary though. We're human at one point, so the so-called disembodied entities, right? Because we have other entities that we don't know what they are. I don't presume to know what they are. Right. But I don't think that every entity that could be perceived as ghost was human. I think a percentage of them could have been human.

00:45:18:18 - 00:46:07:01
Laura
So with that said, to remember, right, the search for the mental realm we rule here. And also traditionally in folk magic in some places of Mexico, Central and South America, they say cursed them, be mean to them. So together as sort of here and now. And just remember to remember my my Latin, the Hispanic, Spanish, whatever they call us nowadays, that not having a body doesn't mean that we lose our dignity and that if they're just trying to get our attention, we don't have to be cruel to them to have a relationship.

00:46:07:03 - 00:46:34:01
Laura
You have a relationship with the divine, you have a relationship with God, and that is you have a relationship with your spouse, with your children, with the person of the cash register. You do establish ideally dignified relationships. Yes. So with this disembodied entities, you know, conservative dignity, like we're not superior to them, we're not inferior to them, we're equal.

00:46:34:04 - 00:46:57:12
Laura
They just don't have a body. And that's not and, you know, so like, establish relationships. If you can co-exist with them, tell them the rules of engagement. You cannot come in my dreams. You cannot come to my private quarters. You can come when I'm in the bathroom, going to come when I'm with my lover like that kind of thing.

00:46:57:15 - 00:47:06:23
Laura
Because if I die in my S's wants to hang out. I want to want to be treated poorly.

00:47:06:26 - 00:47:07:14
Sasha
Yeah.

00:47:07:16 - 00:47:10:11
Laura
I will want to be treated with dignity.

00:47:10:14 - 00:47:44:04
Sasha
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I, I think again, you, you are reiterating that the beautiful is that everything that we experience is a relationship and what applies for our quote unquote normal waking world applies for the invisible world. Whether you're petitioning an energy to come to your aid or to work with you, or whether you're asking someone to please leave my kitchen, this is my safe space and and and your energy isn't welcome.

00:47:44:04 - 00:47:50:08
Sasha
But what I like that I get to do so with dignity and to do so with respect.

00:47:50:11 - 00:48:16:24
Laura
Yeah. And you can remember that. You can always tell them, Don't scare me. Don't scare me. You want to. You want me to understand something? Be clear. Don't scare me. You don't need to scare me. I acknowledge you. I know you're here, so don't scare me. What's up? Why do you want be? Prepare If you ask why you want be prepare right now.

00:48:16:24 - 00:48:25:26
Laura
If you don't want to commit to the why, you one gently get out of my house. You're not welcome here.

00:48:25:28 - 00:48:40:22
Sasha
Wow. I do hope some day when I do pass on that I can come back and at least haunt little girls sleepover parties when they're, like playing with tarot cards and doing light as a feather stepping aboard. I think that would be so much fun.

00:48:40:24 - 00:48:42:00
Laura
Which could come together.

00:48:42:03 - 00:49:02:27
Sasha
Sasha Very excellent. You and I would make quite a team, You and I, as Maura, thank you so much for coming on. Ghost Stories by the Fire. I adore your energy. I love sharing you and your spirit. Thank you so, so much. And I hope you'll come back again sometime.

00:49:03:00 - 00:49:20:11
Laura
of course. Anytime you invited me. Every time you invite me, I will be so honored to be here not only I love your energy, but I also admire your work greatly. Sasha is the real deal for those who probably still haven't catch on.

00:49:20:13 - 00:49:47:12
Sasha
Thank you so much for being part of Ghost Stories by the Fire. Do you have a spooky story? Near-death experience or supernatural happening you'd like to share? I'd love to hear it. Submit your story to Sasha Grammy.com with ghost stories by the fire in the subject line. You might just wind up on this podcast, and if you want to support it and keep the ghost stories coming, head on over to Sasha Graham.

00:49:47:12 - 00:50:12:22
Sasha
Dot to check out my books and tarot decks which are available for purchase at your favorite bookseller. The Ghost Stories by the Fire theme song is titled Lovely from the original motion picture score of The Deeper You Dig, a film about the lengths a mother will go to find her daughter's killer. Thanks Again, for listening. And until next time, I'm saving you a seat at the fire.