Episode#11 "Little Ghost Girl in a Haunted Victorian House" with Tarot Reader Rhonda Alin

00:00:03:21 - 00:00:10:03
Lovely
You come to me when I'm lonely.

00:00:10:06 - 00:00:11:09
Rhonda
I take your.

00:00:11:09 - 00:00:16:10
Lovely
Hand. We go home.

00:00:16:13 - 00:00:20:19
Sasha
Hello, Rhonda. Thank you for joining us at the fire.

00:00:20:21 - 00:00:24:27
Rhonda
Hi, Sasha. And I'm excited to be here around the fire.

00:00:24:29 - 00:00:47:17
Sasha
I am so excited to be talking to you. So I always begin by asking guests, Did you grow up in a family or a household that believed in ghosts or spirits and or did you guys in your family have a tradition of telling ghost stories?

00:00:47:20 - 00:01:14:18
Rhonda
That is a fabulous question, and I have spent some time thinking about it. First, we didn't have the traditional ghost story telling, but we did have a family where, let's say, the otherworldly was very prominent. We discussed it all the time, whether it was, you know, I'm going to go there and say, well, my brother was well into Gyptian Pantheon.

00:01:14:18 - 00:01:39:04
Rhonda
So we spoke about Egypt and the Pharaohs, and I was way into Greek mythology. So we spoke about the gods and goddesses and we spoke about things like fairies. And yes, we did speak about ghosts. So all of that was part of the world. I grew up in to the point where and I love storytelling. So, yeah, we're talking about stories.

00:01:39:07 - 00:01:52:15
Rhonda
One of my childhood memories is having my mother read stories to me as a kid, and one of the authors was Edgar Allan Poe. So scary stories where my bedtime stories, it's.

00:01:52:18 - 00:02:03:03
Sasha
Yeah, Isn't it interesting? And I have the same thing too. Creepy stories make me feel incredibly cozy. Is that true for you? Is that.

00:02:03:05 - 00:02:33:26
Rhonda
Exactly. Exactly. So I don't feel terrified by but by the majority of them. There are some that really do get under my skin. And I'm like, okay, that one really felt creepy. But usually they are. They're the cozy stories I like to hear when it's getting dark outside or we're in this time of the year where it's dark early and I can snuggle up with a book or listen to a podcast or listen or, you know, that for me is it's cozy.

00:02:33:28 - 00:02:40:26
Sasha
That's amazing. So would she read just to you or was where she reading bedtime stories to you and your brother together?

00:02:41:03 - 00:03:07:09
Rhonda
To me and my brother, yes. I have a brother. He's a year and a half older than I am. And since we were close enough in age, we often did a lot of things together. And yeah, we would, She would read stories. I have a vivid memory of being maybe around five and standing in the kitchen with my brother Richard and saying to my mom, Read us the story about the bells.

00:03:07:12 - 00:03:18:14
Rhonda
And that's Edgar Allan Poe's story about the bells. And she would get very animated and go into it. I remember that very well. Yeah, it's good stuff. It's incredible.

00:03:18:17 - 00:03:26:15
Sasha
So then what scared you when you were a child? What freaked you out? What were you afraid of the dark, or did you embrace it?

00:03:26:18 - 00:03:48:03
Rhonda
I actually was afraid of the dark. I was afraid of the dark. I was. I had that, that. And I guess it's a pretty common fear that something would come out of the corners or something would come out of the closet. And I remember my dad, who worked outside of the town we lived in. So he traveled a lot.

00:03:48:06 - 00:04:06:00
Rhonda
And I remember him coming home once and I was complaining about not wanting to go to bed because it was going to be dark. And he said, Listen, I'll put the radio on. You'll have all these people in the room with you. And I would fall asleep to the radio because I was afraid of the dark for for a very long time.

00:04:06:02 - 00:04:14:20
Rhonda
Now, of course, I prefer the dark, but when I was really young, when I was really young, I did not I did not like that.

00:04:14:22 - 00:04:37:20
Sasha
And that is something I think it's an interesting self-preservation technique for small children and even for adults, that if you can have something else to put your attention on a radio show that music or something, then then you're not you're not putting your attention on what's under the bed or what might be behind the shower curtain creeping down the hall.

00:04:37:23 - 00:05:09:06
Rhonda
Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I'm thinking about it. I can't recall ever having that feeling that when I was really, really young, not not as I got older, but I was when I was really, really young, I never had that feeling that something was next to me. So I don't know why I was afraid of the dark. I don't know why there was nothing that happened that in that initiated, if you will, that feeling of, No, I don't want to be here by myself in the dark.

00:05:09:09 - 00:05:14:22
Rhonda
I can't think of anything later on. Yes, but not when I was a little little kid.

00:05:14:24 - 00:05:21:14
Sasha
So wait, so tell me about later on. So it was it was later in your life that you started to discover.

00:05:21:17 - 00:05:51:07
Rhonda
It was later in my life where I could sense that I was not by myself. And those feelings were were unnerving at first, where I would be in a room and I could be in a room with other people and sense that there was someone near me who wasn't physically standing near me. And that was uncomfortable at first and and not something I was truly, you know, as a kid, you know, you're trying to ignore it.

00:05:51:07 - 00:06:00:03
Rhonda
And I would I would truly try to ignore it or, you know, constantly looking over my shoulder who's there? Who's there? And, you know, there's no one there.

00:06:00:06 - 00:06:07:10
Sasha
Did you ever figure out who it was that was that you were sharing space with you? Or was that something that you learned to work.

00:06:07:10 - 00:06:08:12
Rhonda
With as you.

00:06:08:12 - 00:06:10:00
Sasha
Matured.

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Rhonda
As a little kid? I you know, as a younger kid. So we're talking the tween years. That's those years I actually chose not to dive into it, really, because it was I just I didn't know how to address it and I wasn't speaking up. I wasn't saying to my mother or my brothers or anybody, Hey, are you dealing with this?

00:06:32:20 - 00:06:56:07
Rhonda
I would speak to my grandfather sometimes and I would tell him that I would have these those feelings and he would he would just, you know, kind of pooh pooh it. But then he would go into his storytelling and tell me stories about, when he was younger and the things he had to deal with to try to drag me away from thinking about it, he would change the topic a bit.

00:06:56:10 - 00:07:13:19
Rhonda
He was the only one I ever really mentioned it to, but that was because we spent a lot of time storytelling. I was constantly asking him to tell me stories and so I felt comfortable sharing with him my own stories. But he didn't. He didn't really take them seriously.

00:07:13:22 - 00:07:22:09
Sasha
Do you now do you now have an inclination of what or who that was that that was with you?

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Rhonda
It's really they were primarily just the spaces I was in. If there was if I was in a space, it wasn't generally in my own home. If I was somewhere else, I would I would sometimes feel that like there was somebody next to me or there was a presence nearby. And often it would be like if I'm visiting old relatives and I'm in their old house or something like that.

00:07:49:06 - 00:08:12:17
Rhonda
Those were usually the spaces outside of my own home. In my own home. I never really had that feeling. And yeah, sometimes it was really just a sense of somebody trying to get my attention and I kept ignoring them. I didn't want to engage. I did not want to engage. It was not comfortable.

00:08:12:19 - 00:08:23:09
Sasha
It sounds like being at being like dancing in a club, you know, and like they're dance like somebody is dancing up on you, like trying to like, you know, I'm dancing away.

00:08:23:11 - 00:08:28:26
Rhonda
From you, right? I'm over here not paying attention to you at all. Exactly right. Yeah.

00:08:28:28 - 00:08:37:01
Sasha
There ever come a time in your life when you are actively engaged with speaking to energies on the other side?

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Rhonda
Yes. And that came much later. Yeah. I would probably say the first time seriously, was with other people. Yes, we were using a spirit board, you know, your teenager, this kind of happens and it wasn't, you know, I thought, okay, I'm going to I'm going to be brave now. I'm going to use this spirit board and I'm going to see if I can really connect with those people or spirit or whatever that I've been sensing, you know, throughout the years.

00:09:08:01 - 00:09:32:07
Rhonda
Can I really speak to that? Can I really connect? And I wasn't by myself, so I felt a little bit more comfortable trying to do this and nothing I can be honest, nothing happened in that episode. But what it did allow for it did allow for me to actually now start talking to other people about it and say, Hey, have you ever had this experience?

00:09:32:10 - 00:09:48:14
Rhonda
Have you ever felt that? And now I was beginning to get to that place where I felt open enough to say it and not feel like people kind of look at me sideways and say, Wow, there's something really wrong with you.

00:09:48:17 - 00:09:55:14
Sasha
How old were you when you when you started working with your first deck of tarot cards?

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Rhonda
man, I was 12. I was 12 when I got my first deck. I had and again, no idea what I was doing. I loved I saw and I know it had to be the wolf man. I saw the woman in the caravan reading cards or doing some form of divination, but I thought, I haven't seen the movie in years, but I remember it being cards.

00:10:19:04 - 00:10:40:26
Rhonda
She was working with cards and I thought, that's what I want to do. I want to be able to do what she's doing. And so I saved my little allowance money and I bought a deck of cards. It turned out to be La Norman. So it wasn't actually Tarot, but I did start working with them and I tried working with them.

00:10:40:28 - 00:11:02:10
Rhonda
And then I finally got my first tarot deck when I was in my late teens. So that was my real dive into it. And that was, you know, still not knowing what I was doing, but I was embracing the fullness of trying to work with divination. And yeah, that that opened the pathway for me.

00:11:02:12 - 00:11:33:02
Sasha
So when you're actively engaged in divination, who is it that how does it work for you? How does it feel for you? And I know that I know that language can often fail us when we're talking about working with invisible energies, working spirit, working with divinity, or even working with our own creativity, whatever conversation that is. But how does it what does it feel like for you when you're really keyed into a great reading?

00:11:33:02 - 00:12:11:10
Rhonda
Can you tell what feels like? Yes, the truth. A couple of things that happen. The first thing and it it happens naturally at this point where I, I can feel myself sinking into my chair, like I'm really getting quiet and still and I my even my breathing will start to slow down because I'm really relaxing into the moment and I'm trying to allow myself to be open to the messages.

00:12:11:10 - 00:12:38:03
Rhonda
And I know that sounds a little trite and overplayed, but I'm trying to stay open to the messages that come through and for me they are most the most common way messages come through for me are in flashes of images. So I'll see a thing, a Occasionally I'll have a prominent word that will fly in like, you know, you know, it could be anything.

00:12:38:03 - 00:13:03:05
Rhonda
Shoe key, it can be anything. A word will come in occasionally, but usually it's an image. An image that comes through. So when I'm really keyed in and often and I say this to my sisters a lot is you'll often see me with my eyes closed because I'm trying not to. I want to stay connected enough to have a coherent conversation with you.

00:13:03:12 - 00:13:26:20
Rhonda
But I'm also paying attention to the flashes, the pictures that I'm seeing, and I want to see those images as opposed to your face, because I'm trying to get the message. And that's the challenge, is sometimes I'll throw a card and you tell me if this happens to you, because I'm curious. Also, I'll throw the cards down. The spread is in front of me.

00:13:26:20 - 00:13:51:19
Rhonda
Boom. The message comes through as an image. And now I have to decipher the image and put it back into words to make a coherent message. That's challenging sometimes because it's it's a whole. The story is in a flash. Boom. I understand the story now I have to decipher it and put it into language and deliver the message.

00:13:51:21 - 00:13:53:01
Rhonda
That's how it works.

00:13:53:03 - 00:14:13:17
Sasha
Yet I think what you're talking about, it seems to me that kind of vast chasm of of experiencing something like a nighttime dream. And then when you try and explain the dream to someone and there's no way you can do it justice, there's no way to capture the richness, the dimension, the feelings.

00:14:13:23 - 00:14:14:24
Rhonda
Yeah, but.

00:14:14:27 - 00:14:27:03
Sasha
The multi dimensionality of, of, of depth of of our nighttime dreams. And you just then you have to, like, tell a story about it and it seems just so flimsy.

00:14:27:10 - 00:14:32:12
Rhonda
Yeah. So that. Yeah.

00:14:32:13 - 00:14:47:29
Sasha
Yeah. And, and it's an interesting thing, you know I always talk about tarot being storytelling, right? It's, it's, what's the narrative of the cards? And I think that people come to psychics and readers because they want to hear the story of themselves.

00:14:48:06 - 00:14:48:23
Rhonda
Yes.

00:14:48:23 - 00:15:03:03
Sasha
You know, they want to hear someone tell their tell their story. I've often felt in the past as if I wish I could give I wish I could give the person that I'm reading for the feelings that I'm feeling.

00:15:03:05 - 00:15:23:01
Rhonda
Telling that is so true. And that's that's it's so a lose. You can't Yes. The feel if they could feel what you're feeling when you've when you understand the message in the cards that is and you try to convey that in language and yes, it's elusive. It can be elusive.

00:15:23:03 - 00:15:40:07
Sasha
It's very it's yeah, it's I think it's. Do you feel like can you be as good of a reader for yourself as you are for other people? Or is it much different when you're sitting alone with the cards?

00:15:40:09 - 00:16:07:12
Rhonda
Yeah, that's much different. That is there. I mean, of course, we all know the story. We know our own story. We all understand that. So it becomes the challenge of trying to make certain that I am not consciously telling the story that I want to tell myself versus what's coming through in the cards and trying to be that what's the word.

00:16:07:18 - 00:16:38:12
Rhonda
I don't want to say dispassionate, but, you know, I have to have that level of separation. So I do work with the cards for myself. I do read for myself and work with the cards for, you know, whatever intention setting, what have you. I do work with the cards for those in those ways. But if I have issue, if I will, I need to I will sit with readers and say, I need you to tell me what you're seeing, because they're delivered.

00:16:38:12 - 00:16:58:23
Rhonda
They're receiving messages from their guides, guardians, angels, whomever, ancestors. And those messages will be different from what I'm getting. And that's important for me. You know, I can't just hear. It becomes something of an echo chamber when I read for myself and I. Yeah, I need other perspectives. Absolutely.

00:16:58:25 - 00:17:10:15
Sasha
Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. So can you do you have could you describe maybe the most harrowing supernatural experience that you have ever had?

00:17:10:17 - 00:17:38:07
Rhonda
Wow. Yes. Yeah. And this was so some years back. This is when my both of my kids were starting their freshman year university. So they were out of the house. And I'm in this old Victorian duplex in the middle of town, very close to an area, very close to university where they already have their own storied ghost stories.

00:17:38:09 - 00:17:59:10
Rhonda
I mean, they already have this famous murder and all this. So I was two doors down from that place. And anyway, I lived in this this old Victorian, and I'm there by myself. I've been in the in the duplex. Maybe is a beautiful home. I loved it. Three stories and I'd been there for about a year at this point and I'm by myself.

00:17:59:12 - 00:18:22:08
Rhonda
It has a very long staircase from the main floor up to the floor where the bedrooms are, and I knew the only light switch was on the second floor. So if you wanted the hallway lights on upstairs, you had to get up there before it was dark. Ideally, turn the lights on and then you can go back downstairs, do your thing.

00:18:22:08 - 00:18:51:25
Rhonda
Because once, once darkness fell, it was a long, dark stretch up the stairs. So anyway, I had come home from work. I had gone upstairs, put my chest out of my work clothes, left the light on in the hallway, went down, make dinner, watch TV, you know, lounging on the couch, enjoying my evening by myself. And the other half of the duplex was the the home that the property owners lived in.

00:18:51:25 - 00:19:19:29
Rhonda
But they were never there. They lived primarily in California. So the whole building was really just me. And they always had strange noises in their basement. I have to say, knocking things were knocking in their basement constantly. And this night I'm hearing the knocking in the basement. But I was used to it because it happened all the time.

00:19:19:29 - 00:19:43:27
Rhonda
And I thought, well, you know, maybe it's their old furnace. I was, you know, I'm by myself, so I'm trying to use logic to stay comfortable. So here I am. I turn off the lights. Time to get to bed. It's middle of the workweek, and I start heading up the stairs. And again, it's a three storey, so main floor long staircase and then the pillar.

00:19:43:27 - 00:20:13:20
Rhonda
So the posts of the railing, that line, the hallway on the second floor, which led to another staircase that went up to the attic floor, which had two rooms plus a storage room. That's a great space. I love this place. In any case, up the staircase I'm going and I, as per habit, look to my left to look at the, you know, in the hallway looking through the pillars of the banister.

00:20:13:23 - 00:20:44:14
Rhonda
And I see these little legs and feet and the hem of a dress. And I literally threw my back to the wall and I stop and I'm staring through these pillars, following these feet and legs, walking down the hallway, not out of the corner of my eye, straight on, and turning my head and watching this. It's the first time ever it was the most bizarre thing.

00:20:44:16 - 00:21:16:26
Rhonda
Having said that, everyone, my children and I and their kids always felt that there was something in the house. We all felt it. Even guests, even their friends, my kids friends would always say, Did this house here, There's something in this house. Everyone would say this, but we never saw anything that night. I saw that that was not it would be different if I were to say, it was a flash out of the corner of my eye.

00:21:17:03 - 00:21:47:24
Rhonda
But no, I literally watched this figure walk down the hallway toward that second staircase, and I had to calm myself. I walked back downstairs. I grabbed a crystal candle holder like, I'm going to beat up a ghost railing. Like, this is going to happen. And I go back up the stairs. I'm like, This is ridiculous. But I had to say, I said, Look, I know you're here.

00:21:47:27 - 00:22:14:04
Rhonda
I have to go to bed because I have work tomorrow. Please don't bother me. And that's all I said. I went into my bedroom, I closed the door. I never, ever, ever was bothered. It was a little girl. It was a little girl. When I say little, maybe just by the size of the foot and the shape of the leg, it was some maybe eight, nine years old.

00:22:14:06 - 00:22:40:19
Rhonda
Maybe ten was a little girl. Yeah, a little girl and a dress. I mean, I could see the hem and the eyelet lace part of the dress at the bottom, you know, like the what do you call it, anyway? Slip part of the dress, whatever. And definitely older style clothes wearing tights and little shoes pretty, like, not ballet flats, but very flat shoes.

00:22:40:22 - 00:22:43:06
Sasha
Like maybe Mary Jane. Yes.

00:22:43:08 - 00:22:45:21
Rhonda
Exactly like Mary. Wow.

00:22:45:28 - 00:22:49:12
Sasha
And then you never and you never saw anything again like that.

00:22:49:15 - 00:23:14:27
Rhonda
You know, I never saw her again. Could sense her all the time. And fact we would I would be with I would be in the living room looking at the base of the staircase. You could see it through the hallway. And we had the parlor in the front room and then the living room behind it. And I could see from the living room where the couch was towards the front door, where the staircase was the main staircase.

00:23:15:00 - 00:23:32:21
Rhonda
And it was a constant feeling of looking back at that area because that was where we all sense somebody was standing on the stairs looking into the room. That was the feeling we had. And maybe she was because yeah, so that was just, yeah.

00:23:32:23 - 00:24:01:03
Sasha
I love that in a way. And sometimes, sometimes it's not that easy. But I would say it seems to me like almost 85, 90% of the time when someone discovers something supernatural in their house or they see a ghost, or even even for people who've talked about being kind of a magnet for ghosts, my friend's mother used to say, they come and they wake me up at night and all she had to do was sit up and say, Please, just leave me alone.

00:24:01:10 - 00:24:08:01
Sasha
Please leave me alone. Please don't come in here anymore. I feel like 90%, 95% of the time that seems to work.

00:24:08:03 - 00:24:12:20
Rhonda
Yes, I agree. I agree.

00:24:12:22 - 00:24:21:25
Sasha
The situation where you needed to bring in something more powerful than just your asking it not I've.

00:24:21:27 - 00:24:47:07
Rhonda
No, no, I've not had the experience where I've needed to do something in addition to to make certain that they would go away. No, I did have one other other little story that was kind of a weird one, where it's that one was more unnerving than the little girl. The little girl I already knew something was there, so just seeing her was just affirming what we already felt.

00:24:47:10 - 00:25:16:14
Rhonda
The other one was. It was it started as a dream where I was in it. In the dream I was in a store and at the back of the store it was like a little boutique, kind of a store. Lots of little tchotchkes everywhere in the back of the store, there was a one step up and a ledge and the phone was ringing in the back of the store, and the woman at the store pointed to me and said, Answer the phone, Answer the phone back story.

00:25:16:17 - 00:25:32:00
Rhonda
My daughter lived in Long Island at the time and she said she was going to come home for the weekend to Jersey to New Jersey where I live. And she was taking the train and asked if I would pick her up from the train station. So that's the back story. And I said, Sure, I'll pick you up when you get one.

00:25:32:00 - 00:25:51:12
Rhonda
Whenever you get in, just let me know. That night I have this dream. In the dream, the owner of the store says to me, Answer the phone. So I answer the phone and it's my daughter. And she's panicked and I could hear she's on the train and she's like, Mom, mom. And she's crying. And I'm like, What's going on?

00:25:51:12 - 00:26:20:27
Rhonda
What's happening? And the voice changes. And now it's a man's voice. And I, I hear it in my ear saying, I died. But not only do I hear it, I can feel the breath. And this is literally what woke me up. I could feel the man's breath in my ear saying I died. So yeah, that freaked me out.

00:26:20:27 - 00:26:40:07
Rhonda
And it woke me up. Of course, I didn't go back to sleep right away. And then that next morning I called her from work. I said, Hey, listen, you know, weird. Mom, here. Please do me a favor. Let me know when you get on the train and tell me, and I'll be there at the station when you get in, like, okay.

00:26:40:07 - 00:27:03:10
Rhonda
And she's laughing it off. Fine. I pick her up that afternoon or that early evening and we're chit chat. And as we're pulling out of the train station and she said, yeah, I did get some bad news. I was like, What happened? She says, Well, a friend of mine went out last night with a bunch of friends and they got hit by a car and he died.

00:27:03:12 - 00:27:24:12
Rhonda
And I said, Excuse the language. I said, Well, that explains the dream I had. And I told her what happened. I said, But the part that wasn't the thing was I could feel his breath. And that's what was different. So it was it was her friend. Wow.

00:27:24:14 - 00:27:32:10
Sasha
So it must of in timing wise does it sounds like as if it was right as he died.

00:27:32:12 - 00:28:07:23
Rhonda
Yeah. Yeah. Because I think you know and I think this is true for like for many people if you're open and we all tell stories, but you know, the likelihood is you've had experiences where and I think it is spirit goes to those who who will listen who will hear them. So I think because I mean, he was a friend of hers, not a close, close friend, but he was a friend of hers, that it was something where I this is how I saw it.

00:28:08:00 - 00:28:13:13
Rhonda
He just knew that I would hear him if he showed up.

00:28:13:15 - 00:28:26:09
Sasha
So that's so what? So what you're saying is people who are willing to be open channels, if you're open in that, that it's likely that you will lie or the chances are higher that somebody might come.

00:28:26:12 - 00:28:28:00
Rhonda
Yes.

00:28:28:02 - 00:28:44:10
Sasha
And visit you as you're open and aware. Now, do you work on being open in that particular way, or would you call yourself just generally like intuitively open due to the work that you do?

00:28:44:12 - 00:29:21:24
Rhonda
Both It depends on the time. You know, if I'm both primarily, yes, I'm generally intuitively open, but then I also work and I try to manage the you know, I do I leave the door cracked a little or do I leave it open a little bit more depending upon, you know, what's happening. If I really am looking to stay connected with spirit or guardians or angels or however you want to call them ancestors, I may try to leave that door open wider for particular periods of time because I want to hear.

00:29:21:24 - 00:29:42:26
Rhonda
But then there are times when I am I work hard to keep it shut and not to sound weird, but I will get that. And I know many people get this too, you know, it's just as you're falling into that sleep state, you'll get the, you know, the voice sounds strange, but you'll you'll hear people trying to get your attention and I will stop.

00:29:42:26 - 00:29:49:00
Rhonda
I will wake myself up and say, Stop. I am not here for conversation. I'm going to sleep.

00:29:49:03 - 00:29:56:15
Sasha
Wow. So is this happening at the beginning of your sleep or later on when you wake up like at 2:03 a.m..

00:29:56:18 - 00:30:14:15
Rhonda
As I'm beginning to go to sleep, as I'm relaxing, as you get to that, you know, you get in bed, you start getting snuggled, you're relaxing and you're getting comfortable and you're breathing starts to slow. And then I'll start. If I pay attention, I'll start. I really will start to hear the, you know, trying to get my attention.

00:30:14:15 - 00:30:22:11
Rhonda
And I'll and I will literally say, stop, I'm going to sleep. So.

00:30:22:14 - 00:30:41:06
Sasha
So for people listening is your advice do you have advice for I guess, advice for both ways for keeping the door open? What do you do and for protecting yourself and putting down boundaries? What would you suggest for people who are interested in both?

00:30:41:08 - 00:31:20:19
Rhonda
I think it becomes it really does become a conscious and deliberate activity. So am I always good at keeping things closed? No, I am not always good at managing the guardrails, if you will. And I do have to constantly work at, you know, let's allow certain things. And again, the the biggest thing I would recommend or suggest is to remind yourself that, yes, you ultimately are the gatekeeper and as you will it, you need to manifest it.

00:31:20:21 - 00:31:46:06
Rhonda
If this is something you do not want to have engaging with you, you know, you you make clear boundaries. No, I, I this is the line you do not cross. And I do have the strength to say you will not cross this. There has to be that clear understanding within self. And to know that that's that's something to do and, you know, manage it.

00:31:46:06 - 00:32:12:15
Rhonda
I'm not inviting whoever whatever or I don't want whoever, whatever. So that is very clear. It's only those that are here for my highest good who are of causing no harm, who are not ill intentioned. So it's very clear who you're inviting. You're not just inviting any and everything that that's, you know, it's like putting everything in the pot and hoping you get a good meal.

00:32:12:20 - 00:32:16:13
Rhonda
It's kind of end. It's going to be a disaster. And you want.

00:32:16:13 - 00:32:19:07
Sasha
To start with ingredients that you really like.

00:32:19:09 - 00:32:50:26
Rhonda
Precisely. So precisely, though otherwise known as well and well elevated spirit or ancestor. So even if I call to my ancestors, I'm not looking for the ones who had the drama and the history of, you know, alcohol or drug abuse and or who have, you know, anger issues or who have extremely violent. I'm not looking to create bridges to those folk because they have things that they need to address.

00:32:50:26 - 00:33:14:24
Rhonda
And I don't need to take on that that work personally because it may just be disruptive for me and make just it may demand too much of me. And I don't necessarily need to to take all of that on as well as my own stuff. So I look to those ancestors who are well and elevated. That's part of the language I use.

00:33:14:26 - 00:33:41:03
Sasha
When you work with ancestors, what are what what are the goals? In other words, for instance, something that that I did recently, which I loved because I had actually heard Maya Angelou had given this advice, and I happened to be in a situation where I was going into a big party all by myself, and I was nervous, like I didn't have a plus one and I kind of needed to hold my own.

00:33:41:03 - 00:33:52:16
Sasha
I was a special guest, and I had heard Maya Angelou say when people walk in a room and they just sparkle, what's one of the keys? You take your people with you.

00:33:52:18 - 00:33:53:23
Rhonda
You have a one.

00:33:53:25 - 00:33:56:02
Sasha
Room alone.

00:33:56:04 - 00:33:59:13
Rhonda
At so, so powerful.

00:33:59:15 - 00:34:26:10
Sasha
Such great advice. So I thought, well, okay, who who do I personally know who's passed over that would love this party? That would be down for this party? I knew immediately who it was, and so I invited him to sit next to me and like, we walked into that party together and he was with me all evening. So I think he had as good of a time, hopefully as I did.

00:34:26:10 - 00:34:50:19
Sasha
And it was lovely. It was a lovely way to share space with someone who I had a deep connection with when I was a child. So I think that's a great example. One way to work with an ancestor. Could you share example, an example of how you work with your ancestors? Because yeah, like a specific example of what some of your favorite ancestor practices.

00:34:50:21 - 00:35:11:08
Rhonda
my gosh. In, in, in the way of honoring here we are in the season of the year where we're talking about, meal preparation and spending time together and being grateful and giving thanks and all of those various things. It's the energy of the season of being with friends and family. That's the time of year we're kind of in.

00:35:11:11 - 00:35:41:01
Rhonda
So one of the ways I work with ancestors is honoring them and remembering through in in with bringing to life or continuing to do the things and do the work that they did and loved. So if they shared something with me, for example, my mom, she loved to cook, she loved to garden, she loved to do so. She sewed and she knit and she did all sorts of things like that.

00:35:41:08 - 00:36:14:17
Rhonda
She did I mean, rug hooking and weaving and all sorts of things. So honoring ancestors for me is not just like that type of work. I can engage my ancestor and say, I want to honor and remember you and I want to continue on with that work in the present. So when I cook, I honor my mom, I honor my grandmother when I bake because she loved to bake, I honor my grandfather.

00:36:14:22 - 00:36:41:21
Rhonda
If I'm doing some sort of, you know, even if it just means hanging shelves because he loved anything creative, you know, hanging things, he was a great he could what's the word? Deconstruct to reconstruct a thing, he'll take something apart, learn how it works, and then put it back together so that he could then improve it. So if I do any of those things, I'm honoring my ancestors in that way as well.

00:36:41:23 - 00:37:15:12
Rhonda
If it's the storytelling, if it's my grant, my great grandmother, for example, love to garden. She always had a garden. Even when she was well into her eighties, she had a garden that she tended So even when I raised my plants from seed, I'm honoring my ancestors in that way. When it comes to doing artistic work. I have a great, great cousin who was of famous singer back in the day, so we're talking thirties and forties now.

00:37:15:15 - 00:37:36:15
Rhonda
So if I'm in the space of performing, I call to her and ask her, as you did with, you know, when you walked into that party, you're calling those who are of that world who you know, are comfortable in that space, who did great work or whatever, and you ask them to be with you as you do this.

00:37:36:18 - 00:37:43:02
Rhonda
It's honoring them, but it's also leaning on them for their experience. And yeah.

00:37:43:05 - 00:38:26:21
Sasha
It makes life so much richer to you and it is such a pleasurable it is such a pleasurable thing to do. And I think that especially when people have passed that you have such a close connection. It's such a beautiful way to continue that relation ship, to continue engaging in their energy and building. So there there still is an expansiveness to it because often I think when we're with people and till the end of their lives, it can feel, it can feel like things become diminished because perhaps they're not doing what they used to do and you're not doing it, you're not like going to the theater and after dinner and you're, you know, you're

00:38:26:21 - 00:38:54:21
Sasha
visiting them in the hospital and they're settling into, you know, the completion of their experience in this world. So I think it is such a pleasurable thing to continue the relationship in an expansive way that then you share perhaps with your friends or your children or other members of the family, you know, and I love that. I love that.

00:38:54:21 - 00:39:19:08
Sasha
And it does feel it does feel like, you know, the end of fall and especially winter, it's such a perfect time to be doing this work. And it is so easy. And I think it's so funny that people think that Halloween is the spooky holiday when really Halloween is just kind of that time of year, just the door kind of blowing open with the veil spinning.

00:39:19:08 - 00:39:41:08
Sasha
And it just seems to me to get thinner and thinner and thinner and thinner until the solstice until the end of the year. Nothing, I think, spookier than the holidays between the weightiness of just expectation, what people you know and the memories and then the food and the the trauma. You know, trauma is an opening, I think, through trauma and drama of the holidays and.

00:39:41:08 - 00:39:42:18
Rhonda
Family life.

00:39:42:20 - 00:39:44:09
Sasha
And ends. Absolutely.

00:39:44:10 - 00:40:10:12
Rhonda
Just you're so right. You're so right. I am with you. And then you think about, you know, you know, Charles Dickens in A Christmas Carol. It's a ghost story. It's a ghost story. So, yeah, that whole season of being in the dark and trying to remind ourselves of the light and the returning of the light and that it will come back and we won't freeze to death and we won't die.

00:40:10:12 - 00:40:34:13
Rhonda
And, you know, there's but the fact that we are in it and surrounded and and swaddled, if you will, in the softness of it, but then that means we get to be connected more deeply to that darkness and we have to find our peace with it and not be afraid with it of it. That that yeah, that beauty and who sits in the dark?

00:40:34:13 - 00:40:52:29
Rhonda
Those shadows, those those things that aren't easy to see that. Yeah, I'm with you. I love the season for all of that. The challenge, as you said, the trauma that all of it, all of it is, is inviting for me. It really is inviting.

00:40:53:02 - 00:40:56:15
Sasha
And it's spooky and it's harrowing.

00:40:56:18 - 00:40:59:00
Rhonda
It is. It is.

00:40:59:01 - 00:41:24:27
Sasha
The ghost story. Yeah. I and I working with the darkness. And because because if you look at, you know, there tends to be in metaphysical communities this idea of love and light. But the nature of the universe is darkness, right? Is is dark matter and the nature of the universe is silent. But when you start looking into silence, you find that it's coming, it's full.

00:41:24:29 - 00:41:55:25
Sasha
And and that may be why when we're children, we are frightened of the darkness. Because, you know, especially because we've just come from that other world when we're little kids. So we know there are things perhaps not manifest yet in this world. You know, I don't know that it may be why Why, as children and and even as adults, where we can be scared of a dark house and what might be hiding in the darkness.

00:41:55:25 - 00:42:24:27
Sasha
Because I do think that there yeah it is a very rich, full humming, humming, humming place. So I want to ask you, based on your experience, what do you think? There's no right or wrong answer to this, but what do you where do you think you were before you were born and where do you go when you pass on to the net?

00:42:24:27 - 00:42:26:00
Sasha
What are your ideas?

00:42:26:00 - 00:42:56:27
Rhonda
Journey. That is such a great question and I you know, we can go off onto all sorts of beautiful tangents and in all different directions. Where was I before? And that I have I have spent time trying to remember, you know, trying to recall my earliest memory, the moment where I recognized, I am the I am moment.

00:42:57:00 - 00:43:27:00
Rhonda
And I can remember back to things that I did when I was very, very young. But were I was still maybe four, four years old. Yeah, about four years old. That's probably my earliest memory. The I am moment. And before that I still have that. I still have that question of how is it I was able to function from infancy to that I am moment and to this point right now not have conscious memory.

00:43:27:07 - 00:43:53:27
Rhonda
And I think it's because we are so close to being still connected to where we were before we embodied and came into the world. And so we're split. Our attentions are split the same way. Our attentions are split between awake, being awake, consciously awake and aware and being in a dream state or slept or sleeping. There is a split because sometimes we remember our dreams and other times we don't.

00:43:54:00 - 00:44:22:15
Rhonda
But things are still happening. So I think of it in that in that space. Why is it we're conscious, aware and why? So why do we not have memory? Where was I before? I just. I feel that's better. It was doing what Spirit does, for example, and here is me going off on another tangent. My mom passed away eight years ago now.

00:44:22:17 - 00:44:49:27
Rhonda
Yes, my aunt, my godmother, my aunt and my mother were very close friends. My aunt passed away about five years ago now. When my aunt passed, I would have these quote unquote dreams of my mother. I call them visitations, because the feeling was very different. But in any case, there was a dream I had. I'll use that language where my daughter came to me and said, Mom, grandma is upstairs.

00:44:50:04 - 00:45:11:21
Rhonda
Go see her. So I go up the stairs, I turn the corner, There she is. It's her spirit, and she's about to leave because it took her a lot of energy just to manifest. So I could see her. And I said, Hey, have you seen Leonora? It's my aunt had recently died. And she said to me, I haven't seen her, but I can hear her.

00:45:11:23 - 00:45:36:03
Rhonda
And then the image shifted and there were like all these different layers. So my mother was saying, shit. My mother, who had been had died several years prior, was further away from the physical world. My aunt was still closely attached to the physical world. My mother could hear her in, in the spirit realm, but couldn't see her yet because my aunt was still too closely tied to the physical.

00:45:36:06 - 00:46:04:20
Rhonda
That was an energy and that feeling or that explanation is how I see what spirit is like before we come into the physical. We are soul in the in the ether, out in the spiritual realm, in some level of consciousness, I don't know. And then we are embodied with particular awareness. And I'm Rhonda today, and now I'm here.

00:46:04:20 - 00:46:16:27
Rhonda
And now I'm getting further and further away from Spirit because I'm in the physical world and then I'm four years old and I have the awareness of, I am. I know that's a long story, but I hope that makes sense.

00:46:17:00 - 00:46:26:03
Sasha
Well, I first of all, it perfectly makes sense. And again, once again, we're we're talking about things that are very hard to put words around.

00:46:26:04 - 00:46:26:16
Rhonda
Yeah.

00:46:26:18 - 00:46:54:23
Sasha
And and and so it wasn't a long story. I think that it actually it it makes me think of the Tibetan Buddhist bardo that, that that space with which I think it's like 49 days with which a dead school is like moving before it reincarnate or enter or moves on to nirvana. So it makes perfect sense to me.

00:46:54:23 - 00:47:18:22
Sasha
And, and, and again, we're talking about an inclination like we can only know what we know or what we sense there. There is. We only know what our experiences are. So do you think that that after we leave this life, do you think we return sort of that that so the same thing is true, moving in and then move it and then the entrance and the exit is the same.

00:47:18:25 - 00:47:47:18
Rhonda
Is probably the same. And then then it becomes a question of, you know, is and because I do believe so, spirit is the eternal, constant soul is the individual personality. If you will. So Rhonda's soul will be Rhonda's soul. That Rhonda soul is part of my ultimate spirit. Okay. So there's a distinction I'm putting in. Having said that, we're all part of the same.

00:47:47:23 - 00:48:18:20
Rhonda
So if I were to come back into physical being, it'll it'll be another piece of my spirit in another physical embodiment, which will have its own little soul piece. You know what I'm saying? Yes. So yeah, and I could see that. But that happening again and again and again. You know, until no longer is necessary to happen.

00:48:18:22 - 00:48:43:16
Sasha
So interesting. And I have to ask you, just because we're talking about I think it's an interesting thing to talk about small children and their relationship to wherever they have come from. I've had a lot of wonderful stories around the fire about things that people's children have done that have been kind of spooky and odd and interesting. Did your children ever do anything that made you go.

00:48:43:18 - 00:49:14:22
Rhonda
my goodness, Yes, they have. Primarily my son. My daughter doesn't speak of it much. Mike. I have kids. My my children are twins. My daughter is 10 minutes older than my son. Having said that, I remember when they were about three, they were about three years old and we were visiting their grandmother, visiting my mom, and we had the big living room as our room.

00:49:14:22 - 00:49:42:24
Rhonda
It had huge pocket doors, so we had a couple of beds and pull out couch. We're all in there. So me and the kids and one morning my son asked me, Hey, Mom, who was that lady who came in last night? And I said, What lady? And he says, The one in the polka dot dress. And I have no idea who he was speaking about.

00:49:42:24 - 00:50:05:17
Rhonda
Now, my mother lived in a very rural area of town and on a small mountain. It's New Jersey, so there aren't big mountains, but she lived on a mountain, on a dirt road. It's very rural, no streetlights, unpaved. It's, you know, you're in the woods. It's very dark at night. So there's nothing there's no one who's sneaking in and visiting.

00:50:05:17 - 00:50:36:08
Rhonda
So I have no idea who he. But he remembers seeing her. And to this day, my kids are 34 now. He remembers seeing a woman at the door of our room in a polka dot dress, watching us sleep. And I have no idea. And my daughter hasn't told me any any stories similar to that. But yeah, I mean, that's probably it.

00:50:36:10 - 00:50:49:24
Rhonda
I they haven't spoken. They never mentioned who I was before. I was who I am now. They haven't had stories like that. But that one from from Nick does stand out. Yeah. Love that.

00:50:50:01 - 00:51:09:13
Sasha
I love that. wouldn't it be interesting if we could just spend a few hours like, reviewing our conscious ness from when we were like two and three years old, You know, to go to go back and just see what was happening. I think it's so curious. It's just so interesting.

00:51:09:16 - 00:51:28:14
Rhonda
I am with you. I wish I could. I wish I could, you know, hey, there are people who do what hypnotics or hypnotic. Yes. So maybe that's the answer. I don't know. I think that's a really curious thing. I'd love to try that.

00:51:28:16 - 00:51:39:20
Sasha
Yeah, but at the same, I also am a believer if my if my psyche has kind of closed something off, maybe it needs to stay there as well.

00:51:39:22 - 00:51:47:12
Rhonda
There's truth to that. There are reasons why we don't know as much as Yeah, so that is very true.

00:51:47:14 - 00:51:56:03
Sasha
Rhonda, thank you so much for being a guest, for sharing your stories and and your experiences with us. It's been it's just been wonderful.

00:51:56:03 - 00:52:08:09
Rhonda
It's been so much fun. Thank you for having me. And I am really excited to hear more. These are good stories. So thank you for inviting me to be around the fire. This is the.

00:52:08:10 - 00:52:11:06
Sasha
Stuff makes life worth living, you know?

00:52:11:11 - 00:52:12:11
Rhonda
Yes.

00:52:12:13 - 00:52:15:21
Sasha
Love it. I love it. All right. Thank you.

00:52:15:24 - 00:52:17:20
Rhonda
Thank you.

00:52:17:22 - 00:52:52:00
Sasha
Thank you so much for being part of Ghost stories by the Fire. Do you have a spooky story, near-death experience or supernatural happening you'd like to share? I'd love to hear it. Submit your story to Sasha Graham dot com with ghost stories by the fire in the subject line. You might just wind up on this podcast and if you want to support it and keep the ghost stories coming, head on over to Sasha Graham dot com to check out my books and tarot decks which are available for purchase at your favorite bookseller.

00:52:52:03 - 00:52:54:12
Sasha
The Ghost Stories by the Fire theme song.

00:52:54:12 - 00:52:55:21
Rhonda
Is titled The Lovely.

00:52:55:28 - 00:53:09:03
Sasha
From the original Motion Picture score of The Deeper You Dig a film about the lengths a mother will go to to find her daughter's killer. Thanks again for listening. And until next time, I'm saving you a seat.

00:53:09:05 - 00:55:20:08
Rhonda
At the fire.

00:55:20:11 - 00:55:45:05
Lovely
You come to me when I'm lonely or I take your hand. We go home. You cover me with your love. You with love.

00:55:45:08 - 00:56:06:18
Sasha
Edgar Allan Poe is an icon of gothic fiction, and he is often called the architect of the modern short story. His work as an editor, poet and critic left a profound mark on American literature. But what if, as a young child, instead of the regular bedtime fare, your.

00:56:06:18 - 00:56:07:19
Rhonda
Mother read.

00:56:07:19 - 00:56:38:21
Sasha
You Poe's tales of mystery and the macabre. What impact with Poe's language and ethos leave on your young mind? And what if you were also a sensitive child who could easily sense when spirits were about? Rhonda Allen is a tarot reader and teacher, founder of the Northern New Jersey Tarot Meetup Group and a contributing author in Scorpio, which Unlocking the Power of Your Sun sign from Llewellyn Worldwide.

00:56:38:23 - 00:57:05:12
Sasha
In today's episode, she shares what it was like to listen to Poe's bedtime stories, how she used a spirit board as a conversation opener about the supernatural and what it was like to live in a Victorian haunted house. So lower the lights. Close your eyes, sleepyhead, because according to Poe, all that we see we're seeing is but a dream within a dream.

00:57:05:14 - 00:57:09:28
Sasha
Because I'm your host, Sasha Graham. And this is Ghost.

00:57:09:28 - 00:57:17:13
Rhonda
Stories by the fire company name.

00:57:17:15 - 00:57:22:21
Lovely
Love to me.

00:57:22:24 - 00:57:27:03
Sasha
Hello, Rhonda. Thank you for joining us at the fire.

00:57:27:05 - 00:57:31:09
Rhonda
Hi, Sasha. And I'm excited to be here around the fire.

00:57:31:12 - 00:57:54:00
Sasha
I am so excited to be talking to you. So I always begin by asking guests, did you grow up in a family or a household that believed in ghosts or spirits and or did you guys in your family have a tradition of telling ghost stories?

00:57:54:02 - 00:58:29:09
Rhonda
That is a fabulous question, and I have spent some time thinking about it. First, we didn't have the traditional ghost story telling, but we did have a family where, let's say the other worldly was very prominent. We discussed it all the time, whether it was, you know, I'm going to go there and say, well, my brother was well into, Gyptian Pantheon So we spoke about Egypt and the Pharaohs and I was way into Greek mythology.

00:58:29:09 - 00:58:54:19
Rhonda
So we spoke about the gods and goddesses and we spoke about things like fairies. And yes, we did speak about ghosts. So all of that was part of the world I grew up in to the point where and I love storytelling. So, yeah, we're talking about stories. One of my childhood memories is having my mother read stories to me as a kid, and one of the authors was Edgar Allan Poe.

00:58:54:21 - 00:59:00:14
Rhonda
So scary stories where my bedtime stories, it's saying, Yeah.

00:59:00:17 - 00:59:09:15
Sasha
Isn't it interesting? And I have the same thing too. Creepy stories make me feel incredibly cozy. Is that true for you as well?

00:59:09:18 - 00:59:40:09
Rhonda
Exactly. Exactly. So I don't feel terrified by but by the majority of them. There are some that really do get under my skin. And I'm like, okay, that one really felt creepy. But usually they are. They're the cozy stories I like to hear when it's getting dark outside or we're in this time of the year where it's dark early and I can snuggle up with a book or listen to a podcast or listen or you know that for me is it's cozy.

00:59:40:11 - 00:59:47:15
Sasha
That's amazing. So would she read just to you or was was she reading bedtime stories to you and your brother together?

00:59:47:17 - 01:00:13:22
Rhonda
To me and my brother, yes. I have a brother. He's a year and a half older than I am. And since we were close enough in age, we often did a lot of things together and. Yeah, we would. She would read stories. I have a vivid memory of being maybe around five and standing in the kitchen with my brother Richard and saying to my mom, Read us the story about the bells.

01:00:13:24 - 01:00:23:16
Rhonda
And that's Edgar Allan Poe's story about the bells. And she would get very animated and go into it. I remember that very well. Yeah, it's good stuff.

01:00:23:19 - 01:00:32:29
Sasha
It's incredible. So then what scared you when you were a child? What freaked you out? What were you afraid of the dark, or did you embrace it?

01:00:33:01 - 01:00:54:16
Rhonda
I actually was afraid of the dark. I was afraid of the dark. I was. I had that, that. And I guess it's a pretty common fear that something would come out of the corners or something would come out of the closet. And I remember her, my dad, who worked outside of the town we lived in. So he traveled a lot.

01:00:54:18 - 01:01:12:13
Rhonda
And I remember him coming home once and I was complaining about not wanting to go to bed because it was going to be dark. And he said, Listen, we'll put the radio on. You'll have all these people in the room with you. And I would fall asleep to the radio because I was afraid of the dark for for a very long time.

01:01:12:16 - 01:01:21:03
Rhonda
Now, of course, I prefer the dark, but when I was really young, when I was really young, I did not I did not like that.

01:01:21:06 - 01:01:44:04
Sasha
And that is something I think it's an interesting self-preservation technique for small children and even for adults that if you can have something else to put your attention on a radio, show, the music or something, then then you're not you're not putting your attention on what's under the bed or what might be behind the shower curtain and creeping down the hall.

01:01:44:06 - 01:02:05:07
Rhonda
Exactly, Exactly. And, you know, I'm thinking about it. I can't recall ever having that feeling that when I was really, really young was not not as I got older, but I was when I was really, really young. I never had that feeling that something was next to me. So I don't know why I was afraid of the dark.

01:02:05:10 - 01:02:21:04
Rhonda
I don't know why there was nothing that happened that in that initiated, if you will, that feeling of, No, I don't want to be here by myself in the dark. I can't think of anything later on. Yes, but not when I was a little little kid.

01:02:21:07 - 01:02:27:27
Sasha
So wait, so tell me about later on. So it was it was later in your life that you started to discover.

01:02:27:29 - 01:02:57:19
Rhonda
It was later in my life where I could sense that I was not by myself. And those feelings were were unnerving at first, where I would be in a room and I could be in a room with other people and sense that there was someone near me who wasn't physically standing near me. And that was uncomfortable at first and and not something I was truly, you know, as a kid, you know, you're trying to ignore it.

01:02:57:19 - 01:03:06:17
Rhonda
And I would I would truly try to ignore it or, you know, constantly looking over my shoulder who's there, who's there? And, you know, there's no one there.

01:03:06:19 - 01:03:14:13
Sasha
Did you ever figure out who it was that that you were with sharing space with you, or was that something that you learned to work with?

01:03:14:15 - 01:03:39:00
Rhonda
As a child, as a little kid, I you know, as a younger kids. So we're talking the tween years. That's that those years. I actually chose not to dive into it really? Because it was I just I didn't know how to address it and I wasn't speaking up. I wasn't saying to my mother, my brothers or anybody, Hey, are you dealing with this?

01:03:39:02 - 01:04:02:20
Rhonda
I would speak to my grandfather sometimes and I would tell him that I would have these those feelings and he would he would just kind of pooh pooh it. But then he would go into his storytelling and tell me stories about. when he was younger and the things he had to deal with to try to drag me away from thinking about it, he would change the topic a bit.

01:04:02:22 - 01:04:20:02
Rhonda
He was the only one I ever really mentioned it to, but that was because we spent a lot of time storytelling. I was constantly asking him to tell me stories and, so I felt comfortable sharing with him my own stories. But he didn't. He didn't really take them seriously.

01:04:20:04 - 01:04:28:21
Sasha
Do you now do you now have an inclination of what or who that was that that was with you?

01:04:28:24 - 01:04:55:12
Rhonda
It's really they were primarily just the spaces I was in. If there was if I was in a space, it wasn't generally in my own home. If I was somewhere else, I would I would sometimes feel that like there was somebody next to me or there was a presence nearby. And often it would be like if I'm visiting old relatives and I'm in their old house or something like that.

01:04:55:19 - 01:05:19:00
Rhonda
Those were usually the spaces outside of my own home. In my own home. I never really had that feeling. And yeah, sometimes it was really just a sense of somebody trying to get my attention. And I kept ignoring them. I didn't want to engage. I did not want to engage. It was not comfortable.

01:05:19:02 - 01:05:29:26
Sasha
It sounds like being at being like dancing in a club, you know, and like they're dance like somebody is dancing up on you, like trying to get at you. But you know, I'm dancing away.

01:05:29:28 - 01:05:35:10
Rhonda
You're right. I'm over here not paying attention to you at all. Exactly right. Yeah.

01:05:35:11 - 01:05:43:15
Sasha
There ever come a time in your life when you are actively engaged with speaking to energies on the other side?

01:05:43:17 - 01:06:14:12
Rhonda
Yes. And that came much later. Yeah. I would probably say the first time seriously was with other people. Yes, we were using a spirit board, you know, your teenager, this kind of happens and it wasn't, you know, I thought, okay, I'm going to I'm going to be brave now. I'm going to use this spirit board and I'm going to see if I can really connect with those people or spirit or whatever that I've been sensing, you know, throughout the years.

01:06:14:14 - 01:06:38:20
Rhonda
Can I really speak to that? Can I really connect? And I wasn't by myself, so I felt a little bit more comfortable trying to do this and nothing I can be honest, nothing happened in that episode. But what it did allow for it did allow for me to actually now start talking to other people about it and say, Hey, have you ever had this experience?

01:06:38:22 - 01:06:54:27
Rhonda
Have you ever felt that? And now I was beginning to get to that place where I felt open enough to say it and not feel like people kind of look at me sideways and say, Wow, there's nothing really wrong with you.

01:06:54:29 - 01:07:01:27
Sasha
How old were you when you when you started working with your first deck of tarot cards?

01:07:02:00 - 01:07:25:17
Rhonda
man, I was 12. I was 12 when I got my first deck. I had and again, no idea what I was doing. I loved I saw and I know it had to be the wolf man. I saw the woman in the caravan reading cards or doing some form of divination, but I thought, I haven't seen the movie in years, but I remember it being cards.

01:07:25:17 - 01:07:47:08
Rhonda
She was working with cards and I thought, that's what I want to do. I want to be able to do what she's doing. And so I saved my little allowance money and I bought a deck of cards. It turned out to be La Norman. So it wasn't actually tarot, but I did start working with them. And I tried working with them.

01:07:47:11 - 01:08:08:23
Rhonda
And then I finally got my first tarot deck when I was in my late teens. So that was my real dive into it. And that was, you know, still not knowing what I was doing, but I was embracing the fullness of trying to work with divination. And yeah, that that opened the pathway for me.

01:08:08:25 - 01:08:39:15
Sasha
So when you're actively engaged in divination, who is it that how does it work for you? How does it feel for you? And I know that I know that language can often fail us when we're talking about working with invisible energies, working spirit, working with divinity, or even working with our own creativity, whatever conversation that is. But how does it what does it feel like for you when you're really keyed into a great reading?

01:08:39:15 - 01:08:41:04
Sasha
Can you.

01:08:41:06 - 01:09:17:22
Rhonda
Feel like, yes that? To think a couple of things that happen? The first thing and it it happens naturally at this point where I, I can feel myself sinking into my chair like I'm really getting quiet and still and I my even my breathing will start to slow down because I'm really relaxing into the moment and I'm trying to allow myself to be open to the messages.

01:09:17:22 - 01:09:44:15
Rhonda
And I know that sounds a little try and overplayed, but I'm trying to stay open to the messages that come through. And for me, they are most the most common way messages come through for me are in flashes of images. So I'll see a thing, a occasionally I'll have a prominent word that will fly in like, you know, you know, it could be anything.

01:09:44:15 - 01:10:09:23
Rhonda
Shoe key, it can be anything. A word will come in occasionally, but usually it's an image, an image that through. So when I'm really keyed in and often and I say this to my sisters a lot is you'll often see me with my eyes closed because I'm trying not to I want to stay connected enough to have a coherent conversation with you.

01:10:09:26 - 01:10:33:03
Rhonda
But I'm also paying attention to the flashes, the pictures that I'm seeing, and I want to see those images as opposed to your face, because I'm trying to get the message. And that's the challenge, is sometimes I'll throw a card and you tell me if this happens to you, because I'm curious. Also, I'll throw the cards down the spread is in front of me.

01:10:33:03 - 01:10:58:01
Rhonda
Boom. The message comes through as an image. And now I have to decipher the image and put it back into words to make a coherent message. That's challenging sometimes because it's it's a whole. The story is in a flash. Boom. I understand the story now I have to decipher it and put it into language and deliver the message.

01:10:58:04 - 01:10:59:15
Rhonda
That's how it works for me.

01:10:59:17 - 01:11:20:01
Sasha
Yet I think what you're talking about, it seems to me that kind of vast chasm of of experiencing something like a nighttime dream. And then when you try and explain the dream to someone and there's no way you can do it justice, there's no way to capture the richness, the dimension, the feelings.

01:11:20:05 - 01:11:21:07
Rhonda
Yeah, but.

01:11:21:09 - 01:11:33:16
Sasha
The multi dimensionality of, of, of depth of of our nighttime dreams. And you just then you have to, like, tell a story about it and it seems just so flimsy.

01:11:33:23 - 01:11:37:28
Rhonda
Yes. So. well.

01:11:38:01 - 01:11:54:11
Sasha
Yeah, yeah. And it's an interesting thing. You know, I always talk about tarot being storytelling, right? It's what's the narrative of the cards? And I think that people come to psychics readers because they want to hear the story of themselves.

01:11:54:18 - 01:11:55:04
Rhonda
Yes.

01:11:55:06 - 01:12:09:15
Sasha
You know, they want to hear someone tell their tell their story. I I've often felt in the past as if I wish I could give I wish I could give the person that I'm reading for the feelings that I'm feeling.

01:12:09:18 - 01:12:29:14
Rhonda
Taking that is so true. And that's that's it's so I lose you. Yes. The feel if they could feel what you're feeling when you've when understand the message in the cards that is and you try to convey that in language and yes, it's elusive. It can be elusive.

01:12:29:16 - 01:12:46:19
Sasha
It's very it's yeah, it's I think it's. Do you feel like can you be as good of a reader for yourself as? You are for other people or is it much different when you're sitting alone with the cards?

01:12:46:22 - 01:13:13:24
Rhonda
Yeah, that's much different. That is there. I mean, of course, we all know the story. We know our own story. We all understand that. So it becomes the challenge of trying to make certain that I am not consciously telling the story that I want tell myself versus what's coming through in the cards and trying to be that what's the word.

01:13:14:01 - 01:13:49:18
Rhonda
I don't want to say dispassionate, but you know, I have to have that level of separation. So I do work with the cards for myself. I do read for myself and work with the cards for, you know, whatever intention, setting, what have you. I do work with the cards for those in those ways. But if I have issue, if I will, I need to I will sit with readers and say, I need you to tell me what you're seeing, because they're delivered, they're receiving from their guides, guardian angels, whomever, ancestors.

01:13:49:20 - 01:14:03:23
Rhonda
And those messages will be different from what I'm getting. And that's important for me. You know, I can't just hear it become something of an echo chamber when I read for myself and I. Yeah, I need other perspectives.

01:14:03:28 - 01:14:16:27
Sasha
Absolutely Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. So can you do you have could you describe maybe the most harrowing supernatural experience that you have ever had?

01:14:17:00 - 01:14:47:12
Rhonda
Wow. Yes. Yeah. And this was so some years back. This when my both of my kids were starting their freshman year university. So they were out of the house. And I'm in this old Victorian duplex in the middle town, very close to an area, very close to the university where they already have their own storied ghost stories. I mean, they already have this famous murder and all this.

01:14:47:12 - 01:15:12:14
Rhonda
So I was two doors down from that place. And anyway, I lived in this this old Victorian, and I'm there by myself I'd been in the, in the duplex maybe was a beautiful home. I loved it. Three stories and I'd been there for about a year at this point and I'm by myself. It has a very long staircase from the main floor up to the floor where the bedrooms are.

01:15:12:17 - 01:15:34:15
Rhonda
And I knew and the only light switch was on the second floor. So if you wanted the hallway lights on upstairs, you had to get up there before it was dark. Ideally, turn the lights on and then you can go back downstairs, do your thing. Because once, once darkness fell, it was a long, dark stretch up the stairs.

01:15:34:17 - 01:16:00:09
Rhonda
So anyway, I'd come home from work. I had gone upstairs, put my chest out of my work clothes, and left the light on in the hallway, went down, made dinner, watch TV, lounging on the couch, enjoying my evening by myself and the other half of the duplex was the home that the property owners lived in. But they were never there.

01:16:00:11 - 01:16:28:18
Rhonda
They lived primarily in California, so the whole building was really just me, and they always had strange noises in their basement. I have to say, knocking things were knocking in their basement constantly. And this night I'm hearing the knocking in the. But I was used to it because it happened all the time. And I thought, well, you know, maybe it's their old furnace.

01:16:28:24 - 01:17:03:00
Rhonda
I was, you know, I'm by myself, so I'm trying to use logic to stay comfortable. So here I am. I turn off the lights. Time to get to bed. It's middle of the workweek, and I start heading up the stairs. And again, it's a three storey, so main floor long staircase. And then the pillars. So the posts of the rails that line the hallway on the second floor, which led to another staircase that went up to the attic floor, which had two rooms plus a storage room.

01:17:03:00 - 01:17:44:27
Rhonda
That's a great space. I love this place. In any case, up the staircase I'm going and I, as per habit, look to my left to look at the, you know, in the hallway, looking through the pillars of the banister. And I see these little legs and feet and the hem of a dress. And I literally threw my back to the wall and I stop and I'm staring through these pillars, following these feet and legs, walking down the hallway, not out of the corner of my eye, straight on, and turning my head and watching this.

01:17:45:00 - 01:18:15:06
Rhonda
It's the first time ever it was the most bizarre thing. Having said that, everyone, my children and I and their kids always felt that there was something in the house. All felt it. Even guests, even their friends, My kids friends would always say to, This house is weird. There's something in this house. Everyone would say this, but we never saw anything that night.

01:18:15:09 - 01:18:43:02
Rhonda
I saw that that was not it. It would be different if I were to say, it was a flash out of the corner of my eye. But no, I literally watched this figure walk down the hallway toward that second staircase, and I had to calm myself. I walked back downstairs. I grabbed a crystal bowl candle holder like I'm going to beat up a ghost railing.

01:18:43:04 - 01:19:06:20
Rhonda
Like this is going to happen. And I go back up the stairs. I'm like, This is ridiculous. But I had to say, I said, Look, I know you're here. I have to go to bed because I have work tomorrow. Please don't bother me. And that's all I said. I went into my bedroom, I closed the door. I never, ever, ever was bothered.

01:19:06:20 - 01:19:33:17
Rhonda
It was a little girl. It was little girl. And I say a little maybe just by the size of the foot and the shape of the leg. It was some maybe eight, nine years old. Maybe ten was a little girl. Yeah, a little girl and a dress. I mean, I could see the hem and the eyelet lace part of the dress at the bottom, you know, like the what do you call it, anyway?

01:19:33:18 - 01:19:47:02
Rhonda
Slip part of the dress, whatever. And definitely older style clothes wearing tights and little shoes. Pretty like not ballet flats, but very flat shoes.

01:19:47:04 - 01:19:49:18
Sasha
Like maybe Mary Jane. Yes.

01:19:49:21 - 01:19:52:07
Rhonda
Exactly like Mary. Wow.

01:19:52:12 - 01:19:55:19
Sasha
And then you never and you never saw anything again like.

01:19:55:19 - 01:20:21:10
Rhonda
That, ever. You know, I never saw her again. Could Sense her all the time. And fact we would I would be with I would be in the living room looking at the base of the staircase. You could see it through the hallway. And we had the parlor in the front room and then the living room behind it. And I could see from the living room where the couch was towards the front door, where the staircase was the main staircase.

01:20:21:12 - 01:20:39:03
Rhonda
And it was a constant feeling of looking back at that area because that was where we all sense somebody was standing on the stairs looking into the room. That was the feeling we had. And maybe she was because yeah, so was just yeah.

01:20:39:06 - 01:21:07:16
Sasha
I love that in a way. And sometimes, sometimes it's not that easy. But I would say it seems to me like almost 85, 90% of the time when someone discovers something supernatural in their house or they see a ghost, or even even for people who've talked about being kind of a magnet for ghosts, my friend's mother used to say, they come and they wake me up at night and all she had to do was sit up and please just leave me alone.

01:21:07:23 - 01:21:14:15
Sasha
Please leave me alone. Please don't come in here anymore. Okay? Like 90%, 95% of the time. That seems to work.

01:21:14:17 - 01:21:19:02
Rhonda
Yes, I agree. I agree.

01:21:19:05 - 01:21:26:15
Sasha
The situation where you needed to bring in something more powerful than just your asking it not.

01:21:26:17 - 01:21:53:21
Rhonda
I No, no, I've not had the experience where I've needed to do something in addition to to make certain that they would go away. No, I did have one other other little story that was kind of a weird one, where it's that one was more unnerving than the little girl. The little girl I already knew something was there, so just seeing her was just affirming what we already felt.

01:21:53:23 - 01:22:22:26
Rhonda
The other one was, was it started as a dream where I was in it. In the dream I was in a store and at the back of the store it was like a little boutique kind of a store. Lots of little tchotchkes everywhere in the back of the store, there was a one step up and a ledge and the phone was ringing in the back of the store and the woman at the store pointed to me and said, Answer the phone, answer the phone back story.

01:22:23:01 - 01:22:38:05
Rhonda
My daughter lived in Long Island at the time and she said she was going to come home for the weekend to Jersey, to New Jersey where I live. And she was taking the train and asked if I would pick her up from the train station. So that's the back story. And I said, Sure, I'll pick you up when you get home.

01:22:38:05 - 01:22:57:26
Rhonda
When whenever you get in, just let me know. That night I have this dream. In the dream, the owner of the store says to me, Answer the phone. So I answer the phone and it's my daughter. And she's panicked. And I could hear she's on the train and she's like, Mom, mom. And she's crying. And I'm like, What's going on?

01:22:57:26 - 01:23:28:21
Rhonda
What's happening? And the voice changes. And now it's a man's voice. And I, I hear it in my ear saying, I died. But not only do I hear it, I can feel the breath. And this is literally what woke me up. I could feel the man's breath in my ear saying I died. So yeah, that creeped me out and it woke me up.

01:23:28:24 - 01:23:48:03
Rhonda
Of course, I didn't go back to sleep right away. And then that next morning I called her from work. I said, Hey, listen, you know. Weirdo Mom, here, please do me a favor. Let me know when you get on the train and tell me and. I'll be there at the station when you get in. Okay? And she's laughing it off.

01:23:48:06 - 01:24:09:23
Rhonda
Fine. I pick her up that afternoon or that early evening, and we're chit chat. And as we're pulling out of the train station and she said, yeah, I did get some bad news. I was like, What happened? She says, Well, a friend of mine went out last night with a bunch of friends and they got hit by a car and she died.

01:24:09:26 - 01:24:30:24
Rhonda
And I said, Excuse the language. I said, Well, that explains the dream I had. And I told her what happened. I said, But the part that wasn't the thing was I could feel his breath. And that's what was different. So it was it was her friend. Wow.

01:24:30:27 - 01:24:38:23
Sasha
So it must have in timing wise, does it sounds like as if it was right as he died.

01:24:38:25 - 01:25:14:11
Rhonda
Yeah. Yeah. Because I think, you know, and I think this is true for like for many people, if you're open and we all tell stories, but, you know, the likelihood is you've had where and I think it is spirit goes to those who who will listen who will hear them. So I think because I mean, he was a friend of hers, not a close, close friend, but he was a friend of hers, that it was something where I this is how I saw it.

01:25:14:13 - 01:25:19:26
Rhonda
He just knew that I would hear him if he showed up.

01:25:19:28 - 01:25:32:22
Sasha
So that's so what? So what you're seeing is people who are willing to be open channels, if you're open in that, that it's likely that you will are the chances are higher that somebody might come.

01:25:32:24 - 01:25:34:12
Rhonda
Yes.

01:25:34:15 - 01:25:50:23
Sasha
And visit you as you're open and aware. Now, do you work on being open in that particular way or would you call yourself just generally like intuitively open due to the work that you do?

01:25:50:25 - 01:26:28:06
Rhonda
Both? It depends on the time. You know, if I'm both primarily, yes, I am generally intuitively open, but then I also work and I try to manage the you know, I do I leave the door cracked a little or do I leave it open a little bit more depending upon, you know, what's happening? If I really am looking to stay connected with spirit or guardians or angels or however you want to call them ancestors, I may try to leave that door open wider for particular periods of time because I want to hear.

01:26:28:06 - 01:26:49:09
Rhonda
But then there are times when I am I work hard to keep it shut and not to sound weird, but I will get that. And I know many people get this too, you know, it's just as you're falling into that sleep state, you'll get the, you know, the voice sounds strange, but you'll you'll hear people trying to get your attention and I will stop.

01:26:49:09 - 01:26:55:13
Rhonda
I will wake myself up and say, stop. I am not here for conversation. I'm going to sleep.

01:26:55:15 - 01:27:02:28
Sasha
Wow. So is this happening at the beginning of your sleep or later on when you wake up like two, 3 a.m..

01:27:03:00 - 01:27:20:28
Rhonda
As I'm beginning to go to sleep, as I'm relaxing, as you get to that, you know, you get in bed, you start getting snuggled, you're relaxing and you're getting comfortable and your breathing starts to slow. And then I'll start. If I pay attention, I'll start. I really will start to hear the, you know, trying to get my attention.

01:27:20:28 - 01:27:28:24
Rhonda
And I'll and I will literally say, stop, I'm going to sleep, my sleep.

01:27:28:26 - 01:27:47:18
Sasha
So for people listening is your advice do you have advice for, I guess advice for both ways for keeping the door open? What do you do and for protecting yourself and putting down boundaries? What would you suggest for people who are interested in both?

01:27:47:21 - 01:28:27:02
Rhonda
I think it becomes it really does become a conscious and deliberate activity. So am I always good at keeping things closed? No. I am not always good at managing the guardrails, if you will. And I do have to constantly work at, you know, let's allow certain things. And again, the the biggest thing I would recommend or suggest is to remind yourself that, yes, you ultimately are the gatekeeper and as you will it, you need to manifest it.

01:28:27:04 - 01:28:51:00
Rhonda
If this is something you do not want to have engaging with you, you know, you you make clear boundaries. No, I, I this is the line you do not cross. And I do have the strength to say you will not cross this. There has to be that clear understanding within self. And to know that that's that's something to do.

01:28:51:00 - 01:29:18:27
Rhonda
And you know, manage it. I'm not inviting whoever whatever I don't want, whoever, whatever. So that is very clear. It's only those that are here for my highest good who are of causing no harm, who are not ill intentioned. So it's very clear who you're inviting. You're not just inviting any and everything that that's, you know, it's like putting everything in the pot and hoping you get a good meal.

01:29:19:04 - 01:29:22:25
Rhonda
It's kind of the end. It's going to be a disaster and you want.

01:29:22:25 - 01:29:25:20
Sasha
To start with ingredients that you really like.

01:29:25:23 - 01:29:57:09
Rhonda
Precisely. So precisely the analyze note as well and well elevated spirit or ancestor. So even if I call to my ancestors, I'm not looking for the ones who had the drama and the history of, you know, alcohol or drug abuse and or who have, you know, anger issues or who have extremely violent. I'm not looking to create bridges to those folk because they have things that they need to address.

01:29:57:09 - 01:30:21:07
Rhonda
And I don't need to take on that that work person only because it may just be disruptive for me and make just it may demand too much of me. And I don't necessarily need to to take all of that on as well as my own stuff. So I look to those ancestors who are well and elevated. That's part of the language I use.

01:30:21:09 - 01:30:47:16
Sasha
When you work with ancestors, what are what what are the goals? In other words, for instance, something that that I did recently, which I loved because I had actually heard Maya Angelou had given this advice, and I happened to be in a situation where I was going into a big party all by myself, and I was nervous, like I didn't have a plus one and I kind of needed to hold my own.

01:30:47:16 - 01:30:58:28
Sasha
I was a special guest, and I had heard Maya Angelou say, When people walk in a room and they just sparkle, what's one of the keys? You take your people with you.

01:30:59:00 - 01:31:00:05
Rhonda
You have one.

01:31:00:08 - 01:31:02:15
Sasha
Room alone.

01:31:02:17 - 01:31:05:25
Rhonda
At so, so powerful.

01:31:05:28 - 01:31:32:22
Sasha
Such great advice, so I thought, Well, okay, who who do I personally know who's passed over that would love this party that would be down for this party? I mean, your who it was. And so I invited him to sit next to me and like, we walked into that party together and he was with me all evening. So I think he had as good of a time, hopefully, as I did.

01:31:32:22 - 01:31:57:02
Sasha
And it was lovely. It was a lovely way to share space with someone who I had a deep connection with when I was a child. So I think that's a great example of one way of work with an ancestor. Could you share example, an example of how you work with your ancestors? Because yeah, it like a specific example of what some of your favorite ancestor practices.

01:31:57:04 - 01:32:17:21
Rhonda
my gosh, in, in, in the way of honoring. Here we are in the season of the year where we're talking about, meal preparation and spending time together and being grateful and giving thanks and all of those various things. It's the energy of the season of being with friends and family. That's the time of year we're kind of in.

01:32:17:23 - 01:32:43:00
Rhonda
So one of the ways I work with ancestors is honoring them and remembering them through in in with bringing to life or continuing to do the things and do the work that they did and loved. So if they shared something with me, for example, my mom, she loved to cook, she loved to garden, she loved to do needlework.

01:32:43:00 - 01:33:12:06
Rhonda
So she sewed and she knit and she did all sorts of things like that. She did, I mean, rug hooking and weaving and all sorts of things. So honoring ancestors for me is not just like that type of work. I can engage my ancestor and say, I want to honor and remember you and I want to continue on with that work in the present.

01:33:12:12 - 01:33:43:06
Rhonda
So when I cook, I honor my mom, I honor my grandmother. When I bake because she loved to bake, I honor my grandfather. If I'm doing some sort of, you know, even if it just means hanging shelves because he loved creative, you know, hanging things. He was a great he could what's the word deconstruct to reconstruct thing. He'll take something apart, learn how it works, and then put it back together so that he could then improve it.

01:33:43:08 - 01:34:08:20
Rhonda
So if I do any of those things, I'm honoring my ancestor in that way as well. If it's the storytelling, if it's my grab, my great grandmother, for example, love to garden. She always had a garden even when she was well into her eighties, she had a garden that she tended. So even when I raised my plants from seed, I'm honoring my ancestors in that way.

01:34:08:22 - 01:34:42:28
Rhonda
When it comes to doing artistic work. I have a great, great cousin who was of famous singer back in the day, so we're talking thirties and forties now. So if I'm in the space of performing, I call to her and ask her, as you did with, you know, when you walked into that party, you're calling to those who are of that world who you know are comfortable in that space, who did great work or whatever, and you ask them to be with you as you do this.

01:34:43:00 - 01:34:49:15
Rhonda
It's honoring them, but it's also leaning on them for their experience. And yeah.

01:34:49:17 - 01:35:30:08
Sasha
It makes life so much richer to you. It is such a pleasurable role. It is such a pleasurable thing to do. And I think that especially when people have passed that you have such a close connection, it's such a beautiful way to continue that relationship, to continue engaging in their energy and building. So they're there's is an expansiveness to it because often I think when we're with people and till the end of their lives, it can feel, it can feel like things become diminished because perhaps they're not doing what they used to do and you're not doing with it.

01:35:30:09 - 01:36:00:05
Sasha
You're not like going to the theater and out to dinner and you're, you know, you're visiting them in the hospital and they're settling into, you know, the completion of their experience in this world. So I think it is such a pleasurable thing to continue the relationship in an expansive way that then you share perhaps with your friends or your children or other members of the of the family, you know, and I love that.

01:36:00:12 - 01:36:25:21
Sasha
I love that. And it does feel it does feel like, you know, the end of fall and especially winter, it's such a perfect time to be doing this work. And it is so easy. And I think it's so funny that people think that Halloween is the spooky holiday when really Halloween is just kind of that time of year, just the door kind of blowing open with the veil spinning.

01:36:25:21 - 01:36:52:09
Sasha
And it just seems to me to get thinner and thinner and thinner and thinner until the solstice until the end of the year. Nothing, I think, spookier than the holidays between the weightiness of just expectation, what people you know and the memories and then the food and the the trauma. You know, trauma is an opening, I think, through the trauma and drama of the holidays and family life and ends at And I just.

01:36:52:12 - 01:37:06:09
Rhonda
You're so right. You're so right. I am with you. And then you think, you know you know Charles Dickens in A Christmas Carol. It's a ghost story. It's a ghost story. So, yeah, that whole.

01:37:06:09 - 01:37:07:05
Sasha
Season.

01:37:07:05 - 01:37:36:17
Rhonda
Of, being in the dark and trying to remind ourselves of the light and the returning of the light and that it will come back and we won't freeze to death and we won't die. And, you know, there's. But the fact that we are in it and surrounded and and swaddled, if you will, in the softness of it, but then that means we get to be connected more deeply to that darkness and we have to find our peace with it and not be afraid with it of it.

01:37:36:19 - 01:37:59:13
Rhonda
That's that's yeah, that beauty and who sits in the dark? Those shadows, those those things that aren't easy to see that. Yeah, I with you. I love the season for all of that. The challenge as you said, the trauma that all of it, all of it is is inviting for me. It really is inviting.

01:37:59:15 - 01:38:01:15
Sasha
And it's spooky and it's harrowing.

01:38:01:18 - 01:38:06:22
Rhonda
Spooky. It is. It is the ghost story.

01:38:06:27 - 01:38:31:09
Sasha
Yeah. I and I working with the darkness. And because because if you look at, you know, there tends to be in metaphysical communities this idea of love and light. But the nature of the universe is darkness, right? Is is dark matter and the nature of the universe is silence. But when you start looking into silence, you find that it's coming, it's full.

01:38:31:12 - 01:39:02:08
Sasha
And and that may be why when we're children, we are frightened of darkness. Because, you know, especially because we've just come from that other world when we're little kids. So we know there are things perhaps not manifest yet in this world. You know, I don't know that it may be why Why? As children and and even as adults, where we can be scared of a dark house and what might be hiding in the darkness.

01:39:02:08 - 01:39:31:09
Sasha
Because I do think that there yeah it is a very rich full coming, humming, humming place. So I want to ask you, based on your experience, what do you think? There's no right or wrong answer to this, but what do you where do you think you before you were born and where do you go when you pass on to the net?

01:39:31:09 - 01:39:32:12
Sasha
What are your ideas?

01:39:32:12 - 01:40:03:10
Rhonda
Journey. That is such a great question and I you know, we can go off onto all sorts of beautiful tangents and in all different directions. Where was I before? And that I have I have spent time trying to remember, you know, trying to recall my earliest memory, the moment where I recognized, I am the I am moment.

01:40:03:12 - 01:40:40:19
Rhonda
And I can remember back to the things that I did when I was very, very young. But they were I was still maybe four, four years old. Yeah, about four years old. That's probably my earliest memory. The I am moment. And before that I still have that. I still have that of how is it I was able to function from infancy to that I am moment and to this point right now not have conscious memory and I think it's because we are so close to being still connected to where we were before we embodied and came into the world.

01:40:40:22 - 01:41:06:03
Rhonda
And so we're split. Our attentions are split the same way. Our attentions are split between awake. Being awake, consciously awake and aware and being in a dream state or slept or sleeping. There is a split because sometimes we remember our dreams and other times we don't. But things are still happening. So I think of it in that in that space.

01:41:06:03 - 01:41:34:29
Rhonda
Why is it we're consciously aware and why? Why do we not have memory? Where was I before? I just I feel that's beer. It was doing what Spirit does for and here is me going off on another tangent. My mom passed away eight years ago now. Yes, my aunt was my godmother. My aunt and my mother were very close friends.

01:41:35:04 - 01:41:57:10
Rhonda
My aunt passed away about five years ago now when my aunt passed, I would have these quote unquote dreams of my mother. I call them visitations because the feeling was very different. But in any case, there was a dream. I had I'll use that language where my daughter came to me and said, Mom, grandma is upstairs. Go see her.

01:41:57:16 - 01:42:18:03
Rhonda
So I go up the stairs, I turn the corner. She is it's her spirit and she's about to leave because it took her a lot of energy just to manifest so I could see her. And I said, Hey, have you seen Leonora? It's my aunt had recently died and she said to me, I haven't seen her, but I can hear her.

01:42:18:06 - 01:42:42:16
Rhonda
And then the image shifted and they were like all these different layers. So my mother was saying, shit. My mother, who had been had died several years prior, was further away from the physical. My aunt was still closely attached to the physical world. My mother could hear her and speak in the spirit realm, but couldn't see her yet because my aunt was still too closely tied to the physical.

01:42:42:18 - 01:43:11:03
Rhonda
That was an energy. And that feeling or that explanation is how I see what's spirit is like before we come into the physical. We are soul in the in the ether, out in the spiritual realm, in some level of consciousness, I don't know. And then we are embodied with this particular awareness. And I'm Rhonda. Today. And now I'm here.

01:43:11:03 - 01:43:23:10
Rhonda
And now I'm getting further and further away from Spirit because I'm in the physical world and then I'm four years old and I have the awareness of, I am. I know that's a long story, but I hope that makes sense.

01:43:23:12 - 01:43:58:05
Sasha
Well, I think, first of all, it perfectly makes sense. And once again we're talking about things that are very hard to put words around. Yeah. And, and and so it wasn't a long story. I think that it actually it it makes me think of the Tibetan Buddhist bardo that, that that space with which I think it's like 49 days with which a dead school is like moving before it reincarnate or enter it or moves on to Nirvana.

01:43:58:07 - 01:44:25:05
Sasha
So it makes perfect sense to me. And, and, and again, we're talking about an inclination like we can only know what we know or what we sense there. There is we only know what our experiences are. So do you think that that after we leave this life, do you think we return sort of that that so the same thing is true, moving in and then move it and then the entrance in the exit is is probably the same.

01:44:25:07 - 01:44:54:01
Rhonda
Is probably the same and then then it becomes a question of you know is and because I do believe so spirit is the eternal constant soul is the individual personality, if you will. So Rhonda's soul will be Rhonda's soul. But that Rhonda soul is part of my ultimate spirit. Okay, So there's a distinction I'm putting in. Having said that, we're all part of the same.

01:44:54:06 - 01:45:25:02
Rhonda
So if I were to come back into physical being, it'll it'll be another piece of my spirit and another physical embodiment which will have its own little soul piece, you know what I'm saying? Yes. So yeah, and I could see that. But that happening again and again and again, you know, until no longer is necessary to happen.

01:45:25:05 - 01:45:49:28
Sasha
So I. I have to ask you, just because we're talking about and I think it's an interesting thing to talk about small children in their relationship to wherever they have come from. I've had a lot of wonderful stories around the fire about things that people's children have done that have been kind of spooky and odd and interesting. Did your children ever do anything that made you go.

01:45:50:01 - 01:46:21:05
Rhonda
my goodness, Yes, they have primarily my son. My daughter doesn't speak of it much. Mike. I have kids. My my children are twins. My daughter is 10 minutes older than my son. Having said that, I remember when they were about three, they were about three years old and we were visiting their grandmother, visiting my mom, and we had the big living room as our room.

01:46:21:05 - 01:46:49:07
Rhonda
It had huge pocket doors, so we had a couple of beds and pull out couch. We were all in there. So me and the kids. And one morning my son asked me, Hey, Mom, who was that lady who came in last night? And I said, White lady. And he says, The one in the polka dot dress. And I have no idea who he was speaking about.

01:46:49:12 - 01:47:12:00
Rhonda
My mother lived in a very rural area of town and on a small mountain. It's New Jersey, so there aren't big mountains. But she lived on a mountain, on a dirt road. It's very rural, no streetlights, unpaved, you know, you're in the woods. It's very dark at night. So there's nothing there's no one who's sneaking in and visiting.

01:47:12:00 - 01:47:42:21
Rhonda
So I have no idea who he. But he remembers seeing her. And to this day, my kids are 34 now. He remembers seeing a woman at the door of our room in a polka dot dress, watching us sleep. And I have no idea. And my daughter hasn't me any any stories similar to that. But yeah, I mean, that's probably it.

01:47:42:24 - 01:47:56:08
Rhonda
I haven't spoken they never mentioned who I was before. I was who I am now. They haven't had stories like that. But that one from from Nick does stand out. Yeah. Love that.

01:47:56:13 - 01:48:15:27
Sasha
I love that. wouldn't it be interesting if we could just spend a few hours like reviewing our conscious ness from when we were like two and three years old, You know, to go to go back and just see what was happening. I think it's so curious. It's just so interesting.

01:48:15:29 - 01:48:34:27
Rhonda
I am with you. I wish I could. I wish I could, you know, hey, there are people who do what hypnotics or hypnotic. Yes. So maybe that's the answer. I don't know. I think that's a really curious thing. I'd love to try that.

01:48:34:29 - 01:48:46:03
Sasha
Yeah, but at the same time, I also am a believer if my if my psyche has kind of closed something off, maybe it needs to stay there as well.

01:48:46:06 - 01:48:53:25
Rhonda
There's truth to that. There are reasons why we don't know as much as Yeah, so that is very true.

01:48:53:28 - 01:49:02:15
Sasha
Rhonda, thank you so much for being a guest, for sharing your stories and and your experiences with us. It's been it's just been wonderful.

01:49:02:15 - 01:49:14:09
Rhonda
It's been so much fun. Thank you for having me. And I am really excited to hear more. These are good stories. So thank you for inviting me to be around the fire for.

01:49:14:11 - 01:49:17:05
Sasha
Last life worth living, you.

01:49:17:05 - 01:49:19:26
Rhonda
Know? Yes. You love it.

01:49:19:28 - 01:49:22:04
Sasha
I love it. All right. Thank you.

01:49:22:06 - 01:49:24:03
Rhonda
Thank you.

01:49:24:05 - 01:49:58:13
Sasha
Thank you so much for being part of Ghost stories by the Fire. Do you have a spooky story, near-death experience or supernatural happening you'd like to share? I'd love to hear it. Submit your story to Sasha Graham dot com with ghost stories by the fire in the subject line. You might just wind up on this podcast and if you want to support it and keep the ghost stories coming, head on over to Sasha Graham dot com to check out my books and tarot decks which are available for purchase at your favorite bookseller.

01:49:58:15 - 01:50:15:15
Sasha
The Ghost Stories by the Fire theme song is titled The Lovely from the original motion picture score of The Deeper You Dig a film about the lengths a mother will go to to find her daughter's killer. Thanks again for listening. And until next time, I'm saving a seat.

01:50:15:18 - 01:50:16:13
Rhonda
At the fire.