Episode #8: "House Exorcism" with Tarot Academy Headmistress Ethony Dawn

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Unknown
You come to me when I'm lonely. I take your hand and we go home. You cover me with your you with my.

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Sasha
Did you know your fear of a haunting can actually make it stronger? Picture this. You've just moved into an absurdly cheap house, despite its creepy vibes and dark energy. Would you be unnerved if you turned on the bathroom faucet and black sludge came rushing out? This was just the beginning of what resulted in a whole house exorcism for today's guest.

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Sasha
Ethony Dawn is the author of Your Tarot Court and the headmistress of the Terror Readers Academy. She was born in Canada, raised in Australia, and now calls Vancouver, British Columbia, her home. But no matter where she lived, she's always seen spirits and disembodied energies. Join us for an eloquent conversation. We're actually not only shares harrowing supernatural tales, but also talks about raising a psychic child, how to work with your ancestors, and the remarkable difference between the soul and spirit residing inside of you.

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Sasha
So light a candle and sprinkle some sea salt for protection. Because I'm your host, Sasha Graham. And this is Ghost Stories by the fire

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Sasha
Ethony. Hello and thank you for coming on to Ghost Stories by the Fire. I'm so excited to chat with you. So the first thing I ask every guest and I'm so curious about this with you is did you grow up in a family or households that believed in ghosts and were spirits? And did you guys have a tradition of telling spooky stories in your family?

00:02:29:04 - 00:02:48:16
Ethony
I am such a Gemini and such a chatty I was such a chatty open kid and a chatty, open person, so I sensed things from a very young age and I would always talk about it, maybe not understanding exactly what the context was at that age, but would talk about it all the time. I didn't have an imaginary friend.

00:02:48:17 - 00:03:07:16
Ethony
I will say that that was one thing I didn't have, but I saw spirits all over the place in the house that, you know, we grew up in from from as far as I can remember. I would have a recurring nightmare with a spirit that would come and visit me as a child to the point where I had to.

00:03:07:17 - 00:03:37:09
Ethony
My mom took me to a meditation specialist, a child meditation specialist who also worked with crystals and was very new agey. And I had guided meditations before bed that I would learn, and that helped me develop my clairvoyance to the point where I can control my dream. So when that dream started, I could start to control what I was saying.

00:03:37:11 - 00:03:55:22
Ethony
So the fact that I had that quite young, which was not, I don't think, my mom's intention, but having that like, okay, you're going to work with these crystals. This is this guided meditation. This is, you know, all that kind of stuff. It really helped me. It didn't stop me from seeing the scariest stuff and not quite understanding what that was.

00:03:55:22 - 00:04:09:27
Ethony
But it did help me train me to be like, okay, if I'm going to have a nightmare or all of that kind of thing. And then my dad just like casually one day draw up like, yeah, I've seen ghosts at the tower of London because my dad's from. From London. Yeah, I've seen Ghost in the Tower of London.

00:04:09:27 - 00:04:45:18
Ethony
And, you know, I've had experiences that I can't explain. And, you know, he's like, we have to be open to what's out there. And I found the craft. I found Wicca very, very traditional Wicca from like, Cunningham and and Gardner and all that kind of stuff. Valiant, very young. So I was 15. So then having that context put on a lot of other things that to make sense and then further conversations happened in my house and I found out that my mom was incredibly psychic as a child, predicted her grandmother's death to them to like the minute.

00:04:45:20 - 00:05:02:21
Ethony
And then when her mother found out that she was correct, just told my mum, You never say something like that again. Don't ever do that again. You know, really Like fear shamed her because of the unknown. And my mum shut everything down.

00:05:02:23 - 00:05:24:15
Sasha
and isn't that interesting in so many ways that children become mirrors for the parents that she literally gave birth to little you, who was like an embodiment of everything that she closed away inside of herself, out of an understandable. I mean, and the fact that it sounds like so much for you to process at such it.

00:05:24:17 - 00:05:42:25
Ethony
It was yeah. But thankfully I didn't have you know it was a lot to process. And then I found out from from talking to my little sister, who's only 18 months younger than me, she saw Spirit all the time too. And now grandmother would come and visit her a lot and sit on the edge of her bed and things like that.

00:05:42:27 - 00:05:58:20
Ethony
And so I found out from her that she's super psychic as well. But she was so scared of it. She shot it all down, so she never really developed it. But throughout life we lived. We've lived together. It's like adults, young adults and things like that. And we would have ghosts come and she would tell me all these sorts of things.

00:05:58:20 - 00:06:18:03
Ethony
So it would always pop up, you know, She couldn't quite shut it all down. As much as you want to. Tried at least didn't have the parents where they sent me to like shock therapy and you need an exorcism. And you know, there's something extremely wrong with you and all that stuff. So it could have been a lot worse.

00:06:18:05 - 00:06:20:04
Ethony
It could have been a lot worse. Yeah.

00:06:20:06 - 00:06:47:21
Sasha
Thank goodness for that. Like that. Yeah, for the hippie mother's right of the world that are open, you know, too. So would you can I ask you, because it sounds like there's so many rich experiences for for you to to draw from. Can I ask you sort of a high, low question? In other words, could you describe perhaps that that terrifying nightmare or something terribly scary?

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Sasha
But would you also then follow that up by just describing something wonderful?

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Ethony
And this is not even the scary thing that's ever happened to me in with like the supernatural paranormal spirit realm. But it would be, I imagine, you know, when you draw a house as a kid and the house would be the square, then the triangle, then the rectangle, the little squares for the the windows and then the chimney and the smoke, it would start drawing on a plain piece of paper, and then it would zoom in to the windows.

00:07:22:14 - 00:07:48:14
Ethony
And then behind the windows, as I'm zooming in, would be cogs like a clock, like all the little gears, like going around and then it would be a circus ring. And in the circus ring I would feel this presence. And that would be when the male presence made itself known and it would look exactly like a ringleader. But he was like big.

00:07:48:17 - 00:08:17:25
Ethony
He was a big, big guy, really like rotund, like round belly. I remember he was wearing blue, red and gold colors. And I would just feel this approach of presence and I would just be like, paralyzed with fear. Yeah, that was. And then I would just be like, how? Like, how do I get out of this, you know, nightmare, basically.

00:08:17:28 - 00:08:32:14
Sasha
And so it was through it was through the crystal healer that she taught you how to essentially can do you what can you listen like for people who want to learn all their dreams or get out of scary nightmares?

00:08:32:16 - 00:08:53:11
Ethony
I swear the amount of emails, because I've talked about this a number of times, I've gone my way, my YouTube channel and other podcasts because it was such a formative thing. And so many people have been like, What, what, what meditations did you have? Like, my kid is having the same thing. And I was like, Well, I can remember them because it was such a massive part of my life.

00:08:53:11 - 00:09:12:00
Ethony
But I mean, gosh, this was in, you know, the early nineties. So the fact they would they exist on cassette type guys like these are don't even exist anymore. But then I'm like, maybe I just need to like record these for people. So it's been on like it's something to do for the kids. And so these meditations were on tape.

00:09:12:00 - 00:09:47:12
Ethony
I was to listen to them every, every night before falling asleep. I also wore a amethyst ring, crystal pendant everywhere I went all day, every day, 24 seven. It cracked. But I still have the the one piece that I managed to have in the holder. I've got it in my treasure box. You know, when you keep all the things like I lost one earring, but I'm going to keep it for sentimental value The other one and I wore that all the time, and then she gave me other little stones as well to her by the bed.

00:09:47:14 - 00:10:08:21
Ethony
And the meditations were things like the there was one that I remember that you would board a spaceship like a beautiful like this rocket with a whole bunch of, like, spirit friends. So it would be like, you know, a teddy bear or, you know, a humanoid teddy bear or, you know, you take your favorite teddy bear with you So that teddy bear would come with you from from real life.

00:10:08:21 - 00:10:29:00
Ethony
So she'd get you, put you to pull in real life things, and then you would go to space and she would talk you through everything, so you would have to visualize it again. Great tool for you, so you'd visualize it and then you'd go into space and it would just be this like amazing, like stars and planets and seeing this incredible.

00:10:29:01 - 00:10:51:09
Ethony
And then there was like the the Fairy Forest, which was one of my favorite. There was like a mermaid one for the ocean. And then there was a cottage, so there was for meditations. And you would listen to one every night to help you go to sleep. And that helped train me and what I would do, which is so random.

00:10:51:09 - 00:11:17:20
Ethony
But what I would do and I'd see that that nightmare start, I would imagine I would visualize in my mind a painter and this painter would have blue and white. So blue painting overalls, a blue hat, blue painting hat and a white t shirt. And he would come out with a big old like roll a paint brush, and he would just paint over in white the the house and the nightmare would stop.

00:11:17:20 - 00:11:36:16
Sasha
That's brilliant. That is brilliant. I love the creative beauty of like a young mind. Right. Who, like, talk about the answers are inside of you. Like, that's just fantastic. Does it ever start Have you had it Has it ever revisited in your adult life?

00:11:36:18 - 00:11:54:17
Ethony
Never in my adult life. But I can still to like this day. I know like that. I know that memory so well from having it for so many years. But because of the painter and my dad was a carpenter and he painted and everything, so maybe that was, you know, I've seen him paint. We built a lot of our house, so I've seen him paint a lot.

00:11:54:17 - 00:12:11:21
Ethony
So maybe that's where that came in as well. But thanks to like, knowing it, I can lucid dream really, really easily now. So I often know when I'm in a nightmare or a dream like I'm like, yeah, okay, this is this is not so. It's not like when you grew up was like Freddy Krueger who like he could never bitch like.

00:12:11:21 - 00:12:13:15
Speaker 4
I.

00:12:13:17 - 00:12:19:18
Ethony
Call me Freddy because I would have you out of my dream in about 3 seconds.

00:12:19:20 - 00:12:21:10
Speaker 4
So quick question.

00:12:21:10 - 00:12:43:27
Sasha
About lucid dreaming and and about knowing when you're in the dream and being sick, can you can you tell the difference when you're in and when you're actually dreaming? Can you tell the difference of when someone is actually there? In other words, someone who has passed over or someone who's maybe still alive, but that you have a connection with?

00:12:43:29 - 00:12:46:08
Ethony
my gosh, it happens all the time.

00:12:46:08 - 00:12:49:00
Sasha
Can you explain how that feels for you?

00:12:49:02 - 00:13:25:27
Ethony
Different for every story. If I'm dreaming and it's and I've had some really not that I don't have nightmares now, I have had some pretty bad nightmares, but it's not that reoccurring ones. So but if I'm having a dream and it's just a dream, I can I can wake up and shake it off right. There is every time I've had either a really bad dream or a dream, a great dream where I'm like communicating with someone who is either no longer here or someone's come for a visit in spirit, or even someone alive is like visiting me on the dream realm.

00:13:25:29 - 00:13:54:19
Ethony
I will wake up and I will still like it'll always be like a I can feel them still. And then often they'll call me or like, I'll have a connection, like a contact with them in the next 24 hours. Like the father of my son, we lived in separate continents for a lot of the time. We knew each other and we would visit each other all the time, and within 12 hours I would get a message from him or he'd call me or whatever it was when we went together and we would just friends in separate countries.

00:13:54:19 - 00:14:21:08
Ethony
So I've had so many. So it's the feeling, it's that physical feeling, and I always feel it too. So if there's any interaction, like there was a dream I had a couple of years ago where I saw a dear friend of mine and is from Australia and I was in a train station actually a couple of my friends were there, but the one that I knew was a visitation was I felt them because I was running down an escalator at a train station, even though like you can wait.

00:14:21:08 - 00:14:36:00
Ethony
But I was so excited to see them and I just ran into them and gave them a hug and I felt that hug and I still feel that hug when I woke up. And I was like, That was a visitation. Like I felt the love, you know? So that's when I know it's it's someone when I have that visceral.

00:14:36:00 - 00:15:09:08
Sasha
Feeling that interesting. Yeah. I always say I try and describe it. It's so hard to describe this kind of these kind of things, but I always feel like it hits on a different note, You know, like if you are playing a song, it hits on a much deeper again that like embodied feeling. For me, it happens through the eyes and there is just a certain knowing that if I am looking at them and they are looking at me in such a deep way that I could almost feel the I just I know beyond the shadow of a doubt it's a visitation and it doesn't happen very often.

00:15:09:10 - 00:15:17:15
Ethony
No, it doesn't happen like all the time. Like it's it's it would be one of the rare things when someone comes and says, Hey, what's up?

00:15:17:18 - 00:15:18:03
Speaker 4
But I also.

00:15:18:03 - 00:15:36:09
Ethony
Feel like sometimes you have to have I wonder if there's a permission thing behind it too. Because like, for example, I'm very close to my dad. And I said, I've, I said to my dad, even when I was little, I was like, the first thing you're going to do when you pass away in heaven is you're going to come back and tell me you were right.

00:15:36:09 - 00:15:55:01
Ethony
I was like, Promise me, like, you're going to come back and tell me your broken spirit, right? And he's like, I promise. I promise. So I wonder if it was like, because, like, we had that permission, whether it would happen. And he's still alive, thank God. But whether it would happen more frequently, you know, because I'm like, hey, come visit whenever you want, you know.

00:15:55:01 - 00:16:02:20
Ethony
So, yeah, it's it would be interesting to see whether a permission thing plays into it or the belief of the other person plays into it too. A little.

00:16:02:20 - 00:16:05:17
Sasha
Have you ever tried that with a friend?

00:16:05:20 - 00:16:06:21
Ethony
No.

00:16:06:23 - 00:16:07:00
Speaker 4
No.

00:16:07:00 - 00:16:09:00
Ethony
But we. Interesting experiment.

00:16:09:05 - 00:16:34:27
Sasha
I know that I'm actually going to do that now. It sounds like. So. So could you could you share a story of as of the other side, the the bright side of the spectrum of perhaps that the loveliest or most heartwarming, ghostly or energy experience that you had as a child?

00:16:35:00 - 00:17:02:12
Ethony
As a child, that's that's a little harder because as a child, it was more it was more the spirits in the land for me that I, I really I really connected with. So seeing family and things like that, spirits was was a lot harder for me as a kid. It wasn't until I got older that I was able to really kind of go okay.

00:17:02:12 - 00:17:25:22
Ethony
And then it really wasn't until about ten years ago and I'm I turned 40 this year where I went, Ah, I'm actually going to turn my mediumship back on because when I started with my my charity job, she was it was a medium and I've had tons of spirits show up in readings, but it was never anything intentional.

00:17:25:22 - 00:17:40:23
Ethony
It was always just like, there's someone here, And I'd see them and I'd be like, This person is here, you know, like, But then I would be stumped and be like, I don't know, like, I never developed this. I was like, I don't know what they want to say, but, you know, you carry out the reading and find that often there would be a message there.

00:17:40:25 - 00:18:00:15
Ethony
But she said to me, you know, you don't have to be a medium. You don't have to be someone who works with spirit in that way. And so I was like, cool. So I don't have to do that. I have to be a medium tarot ship mediumship, tarot radar, which was kind of a relief, you know, to me, I got another story about that.

00:18:00:15 - 00:18:33:01
Ethony
But that is a bit of a long one. But it revolves around if you've ever heard of the Claremont serial killer from Perth, Western Australia, or Google it. So the Claremont serial serial killer was the most one of the most prolific Australian serial killers. My gosh, my dog in Perth, Western Australia, where I lived and she a lot of the families of the girls who went missing and killed, I asked a lot of mediums and things like where the bodies because I mean you could Australia is scary.

00:18:33:01 - 00:19:09:00
Ethony
It kind of reminds me it's not like California or New York or a lot of places in America where you're so sprawled out like California as a state, like it's it is just like there are people like your suburbs and your cities go for like miles, right? Where in Australia we are so concentrated in little areas you could drive a couple of hours one way and be in the middle of fucking nowhere, you know, maybe not in like Queens, maybe not in like New South Wales or Victoria because it is a bit more densely populated.

00:19:09:00 - 00:19:26:04
Ethony
But Perth, you could use a little drive north and there'd be no one. So you could honestly, it's freaky how easy it would be to such a morbid conversation to to dispose of a body basically if you were a serial. So they were trying to find these girls, like. Right. To bring them to do DNA and to to bring them home.

00:19:26:12 - 00:19:58:00
Ethony
And so they were asking a lot of writers and mediums, and my teacher was one of them that they were asking. And she was like, no, I don't want to get involved in it. But so she's like, You have permission to do that. So then it wasn't until I started, but as a young child, it was through the family that I really found comfort and found that like solace and I and having like a little, I think like my teddy bears and things like that were like my little spirit guides back then because they were the kind of things that made me feel safe.

00:19:58:03 - 00:20:06:21
Ethony
But yeah, as a kid it was hard. As a kid, it was like I was more afraid. Spirit interaction was scary. Basically, as a child, you know?

00:20:06:24 - 00:20:32:06
Sasha
And I'm curious. So did a lot of like the animal or the, the, the nature energy that that you experienced. I would imagine that happened while you were playing outside like any kid does. And so can you. And I again, I it's hard to put language around things like this in a way that, you know, language is not our friend.

00:20:32:09 - 00:20:46:01
Sasha
I don't think when it comes to describing, especially as a child, when you're rubbing up against things that are not quite, you're looking more at the raw energy of something.

00:20:46:04 - 00:20:46:14
Speaker 4
If.

00:20:46:15 - 00:20:51:00
Ethony
It's the veil, right. Trying to experience the veil as a child and putting that into words. So yeah.

00:20:51:03 - 00:21:00:08
Sasha
Yeah. So can you try to to to explain to us what it felt like to you.

00:21:00:10 - 00:21:01:20
Ethony
The good, the bad.

00:21:01:23 - 00:21:02:18
Speaker 4
Because like, you.

00:21:02:20 - 00:21:14:06
Sasha
Know, like just the nature energy. I mean, would you differentiate between good and bad? Because I think sometimes as a child, if you're rubbing up against something archetypal or unformed, it can be terrifying.

00:21:14:09 - 00:21:31:22
Ethony
Well, I yeah, I mean, I was so afraid of the dog, too. So even if we went camping or something like that, like, I just just would laugh. I always have to pee in the middle. And I everyone everyone's going to know this about me, like, even as a kid. And I would hold my pee until I like, my God, Terrified.

00:21:31:25 - 00:22:03:04
Ethony
You know, even even to get up at night in my own house, terrified a dog because of the spirit, you know, interaction. But during the day, I was definitely a fairy child who would like, sit in the climb trees and I'd make potions. And for me, it felt more, I guess, light and sparkly and a life. You know, for me as a kid, it was like daytime was the realm of be alive and and nighttime was the realm of the dead, you know, And that, that and the shadows and the scary things, you know.

00:22:03:04 - 00:22:23:06
Ethony
So and I think that a lot of kids feel that because we're not taught as children that the time that you try to fall asleep is when you can be the most vulnerable to picking up, even if you're not even if you don't have a psychic kid, I could be the most vulnerable time for picking things up, right?

00:22:23:06 - 00:22:45:14
Ethony
Because the mind is going into somewhere else and resting in our spirit. You know what I mean? So I can understand why so many kids are like, No doctor, No thanks. This is why I'm afraid of the nighttime, or I don't want to sleep alone, or I want to sleep with a light on. It's yeah, I think that's they're trying to explain that, like, I can feel my consciousness dipping and I can I'm more open in sense, can sense more things.

00:22:45:14 - 00:23:04:18
Sasha
It's so interesting. It would also be a big reason why and I certainly remember this So for myself, you just don't want to be sent to bed as a kid. You want to stay up late and if you have a younger sibling, there's nothing better than when they get sent to bed before you. The best feeling.

00:23:04:20 - 00:23:04:28
Speaker 4
Of.

00:23:05:03 - 00:23:30:04
Sasha
That. So that's so interesting. And and it's funny because hearing you describe that, it reminds me of times when I've experienced night terrors, which for me night terrors and adult in between world experiences would happen when I would wake up at that so-called witching hour around 3 a.m.. And it would be when I was falling back to sleep.

00:23:30:07 - 00:23:30:22
Ethony
yeah.

00:23:30:27 - 00:23:38:06
Sasha
Sort of into this space where it felt like I had very at first I had.

00:23:38:08 - 00:23:38:25
Speaker 4
No, it's.

00:23:38:25 - 00:23:56:27
Sasha
Fine. I felt like I had very little control over what was happening. And it wasn't until I, you know, and I would have harrowing experiences until I learned to kind of protect myself. But that's exactly what you're describing for for small children is exactly what I would feel like.

00:23:57:00 - 00:24:27:10
Ethony
Yeah. And so then becoming a mother myself and having a child who is so empathic and so psychic, having conversations around spirit and around, my gosh, we've had so many conversations about Ghost. He sees them all the time and he has ever since. He was very, very little. And, you know, being really sensitive to the fact that that nighttime can be a struggle and it's just like, yeah, I was armed for this, right?

00:24:27:11 - 00:24:47:21
Ethony
Like, I was like, Yeah, I know. Exactly. It's all good, mate. Like, I've got all the things for you. We can talk about it. He's this you know, he's got specific specific group crystals in his, like near his bed. Obviously we, I cleanse the apartment, then we live in quiet. You know, like a lot. He can talk about whatever he needs to talk about.

00:24:47:23 - 00:25:18:26
Ethony
We've even had to tell a spirit in the apartment to leave. Even though she's fine. Or at least not. I actually said to her, like, Just don't show yourself to him. But it's a replay, It's a loop. It's not she's not stock. It's just unfortunately, she she passed not great So she's stuck it there's like that that imprint sort of loop played so I'm just like don't please I show yourself to my son otherwise I will get you out of here.

00:25:18:28 - 00:25:19:27
Ethony
You know, like.

00:25:19:29 - 00:25:22:09
Speaker 4
That's fine. You can stay. You can stay there.

00:25:22:11 - 00:25:25:01
Ethony
This reprint needs to be like, whatever. But I was like.

00:25:25:03 - 00:25:26:04
Speaker 4
Don't you know.

00:25:26:09 - 00:25:54:24
Sasha
That? Does it work? So it's it's a funny thing. I think so often energies, spirits, ghosts in your house or in your home really do respond very well when you just just like you would for another person, just be like, could you put down you know, you just you literally ask them to leave. And I think a lot of people are surprised by the fact that you don't have to necessarily, like call in an exorcist or like flow like throw a holy water all around the room.

00:25:55:01 - 00:25:59:28
Sasha
Have have you ever, though, had to resort to more?

00:26:00:00 - 00:26:04:15
Speaker 4
yeah. Yeah. Ways my God. Yeah. Yeah.

00:26:04:15 - 00:26:25:19
Ethony
Here's the thing though on that too. And I've watched I am obsessive paranormal shows. I fucking love them. Like, I will watch them all day every day one. I mean, like one one day. I would love to even just be a guest on an episode of one of those things because I'm obsessed with them. So what's interesting and, you know, we can pick apart like every episode, right?

00:26:25:19 - 00:26:57:08
Ethony
You know, but what's interesting, what I found is people and I agree with this book, I don't have it being me, but it's the The Witches Guide to the Paranormal. I think it's called Spy Llewellyn. And I'll send you the link after so that you'll know which one it is specifically. And I was just like, Yes, who? You know, the person who wrote it because they say not enough practicing craft members, whether you're Wiccan, which is whatever, are in the paranormal space.

00:26:57:10 - 00:27:29:28
Ethony
And there needs to be more because not if you come from like a haunting from a religious space. That's going to be all your lens, right? If you come to do spirit or Haunting or whatever it is, energy and and space from a energy healer or a witch or whatever it might be, It's very different because you can explain to people, Hey, even if you're religious, the more you fear this, the more you give it your fear, the more you acknowledge it in a fearing way, the stronger this thing is going to get.

00:27:30:00 - 00:27:53:17
Ethony
Because you are giving it energy. Now, everyone in this house is now giving what could have been something that could easily be dealt with. They please leave so much more power over your house, your energy, your experiences, blaming, you know, things falling or whatever. You know, it's like there is this reciprocal hated relationship you have in that space with it.

00:27:53:20 - 00:28:00:08
Ethony
And so it's like more people who are aware of how that works need to be in the paranormal areas because it's just like you guys are.

00:28:00:08 - 00:28:05:13
Speaker 4
Part of the fucking problem. And until you sort that out.

00:28:05:15 - 00:28:23:23
Ethony
Even if you get an exorcist, you know, or a someone to come in and clear it out unless you are ready to psychologically also deal with that, then there is a possibility that you know you could create something else or something else happens or you, a hitchhiker comes. That would be one day, not literally, but an energetic one.

00:28:23:23 - 00:28:33:11
Ethony
Right? So there's a lot to that. But yeah, that was to answer your question. I don't know if you agree with that. Do you agree with what I'm saying about how like your energy can fade?

00:28:33:11 - 00:29:00:29
Sasha
I completely agree with that. Not and not only honestly, with ghosts and just energies, but I think that anything that you fear or that makes you angry in ways that you're you're building this really powerful energy reserve up and then handing it over to that thing rather than taking the energy that it provokes inside of you and using it to kind of sued the situation.

00:29:01:01 - 00:29:19:29
Ethony
Yeah, of course, of course. Because we're you know, as witches also and things like the pentagram and all that have been used as a fear of the unknown in horror. And I love horror movies. So so I'm not dissing them. I'm just saying, like, it's because of that unknown thing, right? It's it's an easy thing to figure out.

00:29:20:01 - 00:29:45:12
Ethony
But, yes, I moved into this apartment and this beautiful apartment in a suburb in in North Perth back in my twenties, and it was this gorgeous low rise. It had a courtyard, private courtyard. It had two bedrooms, it had like parking, like it was so nice and it was relatively I can't even imagine how much it goes for now, but it was relatively cheap for that.

00:29:45:15 - 00:29:46:15
Ethony
And I walked in, I was like.

00:29:46:15 - 00:29:47:03
Speaker 4
How the.

00:29:47:03 - 00:30:00:25
Ethony
Freak is this? So on the market, like, how is this not being like snapped up? The first room was full of like the master bedroom, full of light. I turned around the corner of the kitchen and I was like, that's fine.

00:30:00:27 - 00:30:02:10
Speaker 4
There's this like.

00:30:02:12 - 00:30:33:18
Ethony
Nasty, nasty, dense presence. I don't say pothole or whatever often, but this thing was Yoshiaki Yaki and it was in the corner, like the darkest corner of the house. It was a lot of stuff, energy, the kitchen didn't feel great, the bathroom didn't feel great in the back room, didn't feel great. And I was like, That's why. And to be fair, I actually spent most of my time in the front two rooms when I wasn't cooking or whatever, even after we got rid of it.

00:30:33:20 - 00:30:51:00
Ethony
And I was like, okay. But I was like, I can deal with this. This is no problem. So I took the apartment. I lived there for ages, like a couple of years and I moved everything in. And you know, when you move everything in, you want to have a shower. So I turned on all the taps to in, you know, turn the tap on in the bathroom and it was fine.

00:30:51:08 - 00:31:14:14
Ethony
And then I turn on the shower and there's black water a shit, you know, black water comes out of the shower as a bubbling up from the sink. And I was like, So then I turned on. So we went shower, sink, laundry. So like the the dryer in the washer. So I turned on the washer one that you usually have the little sink there.

00:31:14:14 - 00:31:17:00
Ethony
Blackwater. I was like, Ah fuck.

00:31:17:03 - 00:31:18:20
Speaker 4
Because I knew exactly what it was.

00:31:18:20 - 00:31:36:12
Ethony
I went to the kitchen, same thing. So I called my friend who is a typo and priest. So he's a Fijian, a Fijians pagan spiritual. That's his religion, right? So I called him. He's a very, very good friend of mine. I love him to death. And I was like, Mate, I'm going to need you to come up.

00:31:36:15 - 00:31:41:05
Speaker 4
We need to get rid of this thing. And he looks and he's like, Why is that thing crawling.

00:31:41:05 - 00:31:43:08
Ethony
On your ceiling? I'm like, Yeah, I know.

00:31:43:10 - 00:31:47:03
Speaker 4
We get rid of this right now. It'll look like.

00:31:47:03 - 00:32:00:27
Ethony
Fucking Gollum, like climbing on the ceiling. It was so gross. We did a hole like it was a hole. And I'm usually not that kind of, like, dramatic person, like even long rituals for me. I'm like, Okay, I have ADHD. I'm like, Wake me up when this is over.

00:32:00:27 - 00:32:02:29
Speaker 4
But we're just like.

00:32:03:01 - 00:32:25:12
Ethony
Shit, man. It was we put in a whole ritual, so we, we, we put a barrier of salt because yes, that is one thing that supernatural gets right salt, you know, put a barrier of salt around this area. We trap this fucking thing in a candle in a jar with these stones that we had on a glass jar we put the lid on.

00:32:25:19 - 00:32:44:15
Ethony
Yeah. I'm giving you as the rush footnotes. Put the lid on and he's like, We've got to drive to the ocean. I was like, okay. Because like, and fridge in Fijian religion, the ocean is everything. Like they have gods for different animals and ocean like is incredible. So let's go to the ocean again. Perth on the coast, easy to do.

00:32:44:17 - 00:32:58:11
Ethony
He's like, we went in separate cars. He's like, I want to go and separate cause just in case something he's like, I don't want, you know what I mean? Like, this is a bit of a tetchy situation. So he's like, Camilla crashed the fucking car. He's like, I could barely see like some of the lights. And so it was really fucking with me.

00:32:58:18 - 00:33:17:17
Ethony
Anyway, we got to the ocean. We through that son of a bitch into the water. We put a note on his like, do not open. But I threw it in the water and, and it was by like that we had to get and, and like it went away and obviously like I did my part, which was like, you know, we, we savage the place and all that kind of stuff.

00:33:17:17 - 00:33:42:09
Ethony
But I needed back up there for both of us to be able to get that thing to unwillingly go and leave. And there was also an Indigenous woman who'd passed away pretty badly on that, right outside of like the back door. She was fine to the point where, you know, women took her land and stuff. Fine. You know, there's always going to be that wound.

00:33:42:09 - 00:33:59:23
Ethony
But she wasn't her spirit wasn't the problem. She was okay. And I was okay with the fact that she had a little bit of rage. I'm like, Yeah, no, I get it. Okay, I don't get it because I'm not an indigenous person, but I understand so that it was this horrible thing. Yeah, that was pretty intense. Wow.

00:33:59:29 - 00:34:14:00
Sasha
And do you, do you feel like do you feel like that energy? I'm I probably I'm going to have that imprinted on my brain, by the way. Like I'm I so a terrifying to think of it like crawling like a succubus like a cross.

00:34:14:03 - 00:34:15:20
Speaker 4
my God. It was awful.

00:34:15:20 - 00:34:30:12
Ethony
It was over. It was probably the one of the worst I've had. I've had another encounter like that, but I just didn't even deal with it. That other space, I just got out of it. I was like, Nope, this one's even worse. I'm gone typically. But it's very rare.

00:34:30:14 - 00:34:46:10
Sasha
Thank goodness. Thank goodness it's rare. Do you think that that was like a spirit who had crossed over something on the other side? Do you think it was collected energy? Do you have any sense of what that actually might have it?

00:34:46:12 - 00:35:15:10
Ethony
I have a feeling that it was someone who passed over in a very nasty way. The position of it for me in in the in the space would say that happened in the apartment above because it was in the ceiling and in the pipes. So it happened in the apartment above. I also feel that it created this this like also this like kind of vacuum of just nasty energy.

00:35:15:12 - 00:35:36:18
Ethony
And then over the years, it's just been fed and fed and fed. So and to the point where it was like, okay, well, we can't even get to whatever the original source was. We just need to get it out of here, you know? And then if getting whatever that creepy, disgusting thing and I am such a fucking skeptic to like when people come to me like I'm haunted him, like, I assure you, I.

00:35:36:18 - 00:35:54:24
Ethony
Becky, like, I'm like, very, very, like, I know what the fucking difference is. So for that to be something that I will admit and swear on that happened is it's, it is rare. So yeah, so it was just one of those things where it's just like, okay, I'm going to get rid of this. Do you think.

00:35:55:01 - 00:36:08:24
Sasha
That kind of energy or any kind of energy, be it be it something dark and and intense or something light and lovely, do you think that that can actually attach to humans?

00:36:08:26 - 00:36:10:25
Ethony
Yes, I've seen it 100%.

00:36:11:00 - 00:36:23:24
Sasha
So do you think that do you think there's do you think that could you speak more to that? And it's no harm in having sort of a happy energy that it's.

00:36:23:26 - 00:36:48:14
Ethony
no, absolutely not. Because no, if it's a happy energy, if it is an ancestor or this we talk about this all the time. Ancestors, spirit guides, Spirit guardians, any of your unseen army that is working or just got shivers, There's working with you past pets who passed away, those spirits who are protecting you, loved ones, they they are archangels, whoever you work with.

00:36:48:17 - 00:37:07:18
Ethony
yeah. I'm like, if you can see them like goosebumps everywhere. They are all wonderful. They are all wonderful. And they are often when you maybe go to a mediumship reading or whatever, as you know, they are going to be the ones that show up. You know, Grandad who wants to say hello or like grandma or, you know, whoever it is, and you get that smell of her like soup cooking or something.

00:37:07:21 - 00:37:25:17
Ethony
They are wonderful and they are going to be the ones too, if you have that relationship. Not to say that you need to have that relationship in order to be protected, but they will protect you. You know what? I think and most people will walk around, I believe or I have a theory because theories are better than beliefs.

00:37:25:19 - 00:37:47:10
Ethony
I have a theory that most people can walk around and bump up against ugly energy and be redirected from potentially harmful people or harmful spaces or like maybe even walking that a apartment, for example. I just got I don't know why, but I just don't like it here because even if they don't have that relationship with that army on the other side, those they're working with them.

00:37:47:12 - 00:38:16:29
Ethony
They are helping you, right? So you they are just there to help you. So you don't necessarily need to be like working with them. The more you work with them, the more clearer those messages are going to be. Of course. But what happens, I believe, and what I have seen is when you start to do things either consciously or subconsciously, that start to tear away at that, that potential support and love, and you start walking in the other direction, right?

00:38:16:29 - 00:38:54:21
Ethony
So say, for example, you unfortunately have an addiction problem and a lot of us do have addiction issues that isn't treated or doesn't get acknowledged or you suffer from abuse as a child, which is never, ever, ever your fault. And that creates trauma and it creates a causal response and it creates a psychological acceptance of like, this is what's normal, or you don't deal with generational trauma, or you start it like if you go into the extreme, you become like the next Ted Bundy.

00:38:54:23 - 00:39:21:17
Ethony
All those horrible choices and decisions that that person made that he made starts break there is that Amy's just gonna see a fucking light and a new one will come in and that's when you start to get those attachments that, that start to not saying you have to be Ted Bundy to have them, but like that's when you have that, like, heaviness and you know, and then more, you know, you radiate whatever, you radiate, that's going to attract other things.

00:39:21:17 - 00:39:49:02
Ethony
So when I have seen people who have possessions or attachments that are not nice, it has usually been one of those things like trauma that has been experienced and dealt with mental health issues that haven't been dealt with generational stuff. Often it's unfortunately abuse that has been experienced as a child and they've found ways to cope which haven't been great.

00:39:49:05 - 00:40:07:06
Ethony
All those things can create such a and then there are people who just fucking fuck with the occult, right? And will do nasty stuff. But they're very on, you know, on the other side. But yeah, it's an interesting thing. See, I see them. You can feel it often in people's vibe. Yeah. Does that make sense?

00:40:07:09 - 00:40:32:18
Sasha
It makes so much sense. It makes so much sense and it so rings true. And I am curious for people out there who maybe want to take the first step towards having a relationship with their the good energies around them. What's like one simple, very easy thing? A person who's never worked with your ancestors or spirit guides? What's something simple they could do?

00:40:32:21 - 00:40:55:11
Ethony
I'm a big this is going to come as a shock to no one who knows me but use a tool, find a divination tool. And the reason I say this is because having having something visual or something that is our language to help connect with the language on the other side can be very, very helpful. So but it also depends on your culture.

00:40:55:11 - 00:41:14:12
Ethony
So for me, I have grandparents and things have passed, but I didn't have a relationship with them. Many of them passed away before I was even born or I was very, very young, so I don't know them. So for me, I don't have an ancestral space where I've got photos of my grandparents. Jordan, on the other hand, it was very close to her grandparents.

00:41:14:14 - 00:41:34:22
Ethony
So we have the ashes, we have the photos. Grandma Garcia, her grandfather rocks up all the time, like he's out all the time. So it's very different now. I don't have a personal relationship. That's her spirit, you know, like, that's her family. But we, you know, I'm Kokoschka School, like, you know. So if you have that, if you have a loved one, Absolutely.

00:41:34:22 - 00:41:55:06
Ethony
Honoring them even is a way to like seeing that photo and being like, my, you know, I miss you and say hello, putting flowers on the gravesite or saying hello to their to their ashes if you have them in an urn. But if you don't have any of that cards. I love Tarot and Oracle because it is our language.

00:41:55:06 - 00:42:19:06
Ethony
It is a symbolic universal language we have been using since we've scratched itches into caves. You know, it goes so far into our DNA and it's so written in the stars that it transcends. Right. So that is a brilliant way to do it. Even every morning, asking what do my spirit gods want me to know today? Or What does Gran Picasso want me to know today or just grant me?

00:42:19:06 - 00:42:43:19
Ethony
Does he have anything to you to say to me? And then just pulling one card, Oracle cards tend to be a better place for beginners to start. I went straight to tarot, but if you feel like tarot is the way to go to, jump into that as well. But I can also send you some resources that for anyone who wants, I've got some free resources that people can sign up for and help them along the way.

00:42:43:21 - 00:43:11:24
Sasha
So fantastic. Yes, please. I have to I have to ask you a little bit about your witchcraft journey, because I know a lot of people curious about that. How what was your first step and what would you suggest to anybody? You know, witchcraft is all over the place, but what do you think is a healthy first step for someone to take who's interested in in and tapping into their magical side?

00:43:11:29 - 00:43:17:01
Sasha
And and what was that experience like for you?

00:43:17:03 - 00:43:39:21
Ethony
I was always it was it was wasn't preordained that I was going to end up on this on that path because I was obsessed with anything magical, even as a kid. Like, I remember us having this conversation of being like, you know, that Halloween, even though I was Australian living in Australia in the eighties and early, like when I was a kid, it was the eighties and early nineties.

00:43:39:24 - 00:43:42:27
Speaker 4
No such thing as Halloween in Australia. Ladies in the.

00:43:42:27 - 00:44:04:19
Ethony
Early like they were like, this is a North American holiday. But my mum's Canadian, right? So I've loved Halloween ever since I was a kid. I watch Huggies pregnant so many times I could quote that movie from like what would I love? Things like The Labyrinth is one of my favorite movies. I wanted to be Glinda the Good Witch, you know, I gave myself the name Fanny at 11 years old.

00:44:04:19 - 00:44:23:04
Ethony
I was Anthony the Good Witch at 11, and I would make potions and stuff like that out of dandelions and things like that. Like it was destiny. I was a very magical, little magical child. So when I found it at 15, it was kind of like, Yep, this is definitely what was going to happen. But we are so lucky now.

00:44:23:06 - 00:44:50:04
Ethony
We have got so many amazing people who work in the craft and that you can find it wasn't easy back then for any of us to find anything, but now it's just it is so easy to find and definitely read, read and be always have a critical mind because even that person may be on YouTube or TikTok that has, you know, 80,000 followers or whatever it may be.

00:44:50:06 - 00:45:15:20
Ethony
You know, it may not be they know what they're talking about. Always have a critical mind and they're a classic text that are not problematic that you can absolutely read. You know, I love I would always recommend Scott Cunningham books because, I mean, like that is some legacy stuff. Not as hard to read as like, you know, drawing down the moon or the white goddess, you know, like you're like those are hard reads.

00:45:15:22 - 00:45:40:16
Ethony
The can be a little bit difficult as well. Like it's a bit it's quite heavily esoteric, like matte Orange psychic, which great place to start, you know. So finding some people that are not problematic is definitely like Dorothy Morrison is a great one. Deborah Lip There are really, really good resources out there now, thank goodness. And then always just have a critical mind like does this feel right to me?

00:45:40:18 - 00:46:03:05
Ethony
Educate yourself as much as possible, but then just trust your own magic man like you build that connection with yourself. You build that connection with the spirits on your land. Whether that is spirit doesn't necessarily mean ghosts. It means like. Like I posted about the sage plant outside or the trees that grow on your land. You know that the animals that are around with you, right?

00:46:03:05 - 00:46:18:29
Ethony
Like you build that relationship to figure out what's going on with the seasons in your area. You know, say good morning to the sun and say hi to the moon and, you know, just really starting to tap in and then use a tool that helps you develop your intuition with all of that and you're going to be on the right path.

00:46:18:29 - 00:46:52:15
Sasha
I love that advice. I love that advice. So, so good. And I and it's exciting, too, because I feel like for every individual and I want to say to be critical and even use a skeptical mind. I think so much is of magic that takes place in the creative imagination. And it is important to differentiate between, Is this my imagination or is this something that's really happening, whether it be communicating with the other side or or or just not believing everything that happens?

00:46:52:18 - 00:47:13:23
Sasha
Like you want to know, but you only feel that inside yourself? And that's something I think everybody on this path or who's interested in it needs to cultivate within themselves. And you. We all do that for so many other places in our life. This is perhaps the most one of the most important places to do that. I know at.

00:47:13:25 - 00:47:37:11
Ethony
And remember, you don't need all the tools. You don't need all the tools straight away. I've been practicing for most of my life and yes, I have a lot of stuff, but that's because I've been practicing for most of my life. So don't feel like you need all the accouterments straight away. I mean, I say to people in like some of my videos and YouTube, what do you really need, a journal or mirror book that maybe turns into your book Shadows, maybe at some point and divination tool?

00:47:37:11 - 00:47:43:13
Ethony
Because again, I feel like the best way to find yourself in a pen like that's most important thing is to get. So.

00:47:43:13 - 00:48:07:01
Sasha
Yeah, yeah. Agreed. Agreed. So I want to ask you one last question, which I love talking about mystery and the supernatural and the paranormal and the invisible world. And it's fun to try and put words around our experiences and understand what their implications are and what they mean. But of course, I don't think mystery is ever quite meant to be explained, right?

00:48:07:01 - 00:48:07:18
Sasha
It's meant to be.

00:48:07:18 - 00:48:09:21
Speaker 4
Explored.

00:48:09:23 - 00:48:11:23
Ethony
Through for a reason. Yeah.

00:48:11:25 - 00:48:40:07
Sasha
So I would just love to know from you what your what your hunches or feelings are about. About where you we, all of us are before we're born and where we go after we die. Because I think that one of the functions of ghost stories, right in modern society, while they're spooky and they're fun and they bring us together, what they're really talking about is this question Where were we?

00:48:40:14 - 00:48:41:25
Sasha
And where are we going?

00:48:41:28 - 00:49:10:24
Ethony
So, yeah, it's I have thought about this a lot, a lot over my lifetime. And the closest idea that I can come to is, first of all, a light went off of me when I was doing my when I started doing mediumship training. More seriously was that when the I never understood the difference between spirit and soul, because a lot of people will use those things interchangeably.

00:49:10:26 - 00:49:40:16
Ethony
But it was explained to me by one of my teachers really, really well when I was doing one of my workshops and training and mediumship was the soul is the universal thing, the essence, the undescribable energy, the God energy, the star energy, the universe experiencing itself, energy that cannot be destroyed, that will be transmuted and reincarnated or whatever happens.

00:49:40:16 - 00:50:07:06
Ethony
You go to a blue planet, whatever it is, right? That's the soul. The soul. Is that part of the connection, the all that we have and we experience this, the soul experience is through the spirit. The spirit is the identity is the collected experience of that lifetime. So the spirit is the the memories, all that kind of stuff, the personality traits, the connections we make with other spirits and other souls.

00:50:07:08 - 00:50:24:19
Ethony
The soul experiences will definitely never go away like the family you're born into and all that kind of stuff. But like friends you make like best friends or things like that. And so when you pass away, when people have spirits or hauntings or whatever, they're not dealing with the soul. The soul gone. The soul is like, I'm going back home.

00:50:24:19 - 00:50:49:05
Ethony
I'm, you know, I'm going back to I think we go back to the collective, like to the primordial goo. We reconnect back into the cosmic hive. What however you want to see it, like we go back to Source and the Spirit. I think this is where there's a little bit more leeway. I think this is why we have so many of these paranormal experience.

00:50:49:05 - 00:51:05:05
Ethony
This and again, this is just my idea. It's not, you know, I don't think we're going to know until we die. I mean, even then again, I don't think the soul gives a shit. It's going to be the spirit gives a shit. I think that the spirit can decide where it goes because the spirit is not the soul.

00:51:05:07 - 00:51:27:29
Ethony
So for my friends who are deeply religious, maybe they go to their version of heaven, right? If they believed what they perceive to be a good life and they think that that God is going to judge them or whatever it may be. And you got to think about it, man. Like I went to the Vatican this year, like the power of religion is it's real.

00:51:27:29 - 00:51:30:04
Ethony
It is palpable, even if you don't believe it. Right.

00:51:30:04 - 00:51:32:24
Speaker 4
Like if millions.

00:51:32:24 - 00:52:05:01
Ethony
Upon millions of people over our small amount of time that humans have been on this earth believe in this stuff, it has created something. You know what I mean? Only, you know, only energetic in psychological realm. So maybe they go to their they go to their heaven or they go to their hell or whatever it is, because that is, you know, they've done that or they've stayed here because I feel like they have unfinished business or they go to their version of the afterlife or, you know, if you're a lot of indigenous people believe they go back to great spirit, so their spirit will go back to great spirit.

00:52:05:01 - 00:52:25:24
Ethony
So it's interesting and for me, dealing with the spirits that I have dealt with that makes the most sense because they all have their own stories, they all have their own replays, they all have their own stories. I have their own. And it's like, Ah, I never understood. It was like, well, how can we be dealing with like the spirit if are using spirit and soul interchangeably?

00:52:25:24 - 00:52:29:00
Ethony
And then I finally had that light bulb and I was like, that makes sense.

00:52:29:00 - 00:52:49:26
Sasha
I love that. I love your differentiation between spirit and soul. And let me just state it back to make sure that I'm even understanding it correctly that the soul is that kind of that flag of that that thing which we share with all living things and all on manifest and manifest. So it's the breath beneath our breath, the eyes behind our eyes.

00:52:49:26 - 00:53:05:12
Sasha
And then the spirit is that thing which is you, me, everybody, the unfolding eyes of the universe, having our own unique experience on top of that. Correct. On top of that soul level.

00:53:05:14 - 00:53:27:20
Ethony
And when we're in this flesh suit they're intermingled with, and then when we leave, then they separate sorrows and say a little bit of who you are goes back to the universe, because the universe is experiencing I believe it is experiencing itself, right, intelligently experiencing itself. Whether you see that through the lens of God or whatever. So I think it goes back.

00:53:27:20 - 00:53:50:27
Ethony
It's almost like a copy is made. You know what I made in that that copy stays here and it goes back. This is constantly learning about itself and expanding. So I don't think it just like is left right. But I do.

00:53:50:29 - 00:54:19:13
Sasha
But I, but I love I love this idea because when you kind of boil that down to its essence, what it says is that none of us are ever alone. And and I think that that's the thing that so many of us struggle with is feeling alone, feeling cut off, feeling unseen, feeling disconnected. But the spirit and the soul interchange means that we never experienced anything by ourselves.

00:54:19:13 - 00:54:25:02
Sasha
There's there's faults. And I think that's a beautiful thing. And thank you.

00:54:25:05 - 00:54:27:00
Speaker 4
I'm I know, of course.

00:54:27:00 - 00:54:52:27
Ethony
And that's one of the things about reclaiming the sovereignty of your your soul. Right. Because a lot of institutions have come into place and put the barrier between like being able to experience the source of God or whatever it may be. It's like once you've realized it's never left, it's never it's never been anywhere else. You know, your ancestors, your, you know, the intelligent universe has always been there.

00:54:52:29 - 00:54:58:20
Ethony
Then you're like, crap. Like, you're right. I have never been alone. So yeah, I love that.

00:54:58:23 - 00:55:22:14
Sasha
I love that. It's very comforting. It's very, very comforting. And it and it also speaks to the fact that, you know, when people will say the answers are inside you, right, or the path is inside of you, it really is right. It really is when looking through that that lens. So, Anthony, thank you so much. I hope that you will return again, because I feel like we've only scratched the surface.

00:55:22:17 - 00:55:26:16
Speaker 4
Like, but I really go, sorry I didn't get to.

00:55:26:22 - 00:55:31:16
Ethony
You, though, that I had so many people. I'm like, which randomly, where are we going to go? So I'm glad we went where we went, but.

00:55:31:17 - 00:55:59:25
Sasha
Excellent. Excellent. All right. Well, I'm going to have you back and thank you so much. This was amazing, man. Thank you so much for being part of Ghost Stories by the Fire. Do you have a spooky story, near-death experience or supernatural happening you'd like to share? I'd love to hear it. Submit your story to Sasha Grammy.com with ghost stories by the fire in the subject line.

00:55:59:28 - 00:56:32:02
Sasha
You might just wind up on this podcast, and if you want to support it and keep the ghost stories coming, head on over to Sasha Grammy.com to check out my books and tarot decks which are available for purchase at your favorite bookseller. The Ghost stories by the Fire theme song is titled Lovely from the original motion picture score of The Deeper You Dig, a film about the lengths a mother will go to to find her daughter's killer, even if that means accepting a curse from beyond the grave.

00:56:32:04 - 00:56:46:25
Sasha
The film and song were created by The Addams Family with lead vocals by Zelda Adams. Stream The Deeper You Dig on Amazon Prime or Tubi. Thanks again for listening. And until next time, I'm saving you a seat.