Episode #6: “Creepy Fingers” with Director & Actress Catherine Mary Stewart

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Lovely
You come to me when I'm lonely. I take your hand and we go home. You cover me with your you with my.

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Sasha
What would you do if you woke up in the middle of the night to a strange creature peering around your bedroom door to the departed? Leave their energy behind. And is artificial intelligence the new ghostly encounter? If you were a seventies or eighties, kid, chances are you were raised by TV and movies. And you know exactly who today's guest is.

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Sasha
Catherine Mary Stuart taught me a millions of girls how to stand up for ourselves and fight our way through a zombie apocalypse. Long before the Walking Dead was a thing, She's the star of the epic classic film Night of the Comet. Cassie began her career as the original killer Brady on Days of Our Lives, and went on to star in dozens of TV shows, series and movies such as Hollywood Wives, The Last Starfighter and Weekend at Bernie's.

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Sasha
Today, she shares her ghost experiences, musings on her creative life and what it's like to take her character's home with her. So grab some popcorn and turn down the lights. Because I'm Sasha Graham and this is Ghost Stories by the fire company. Lovely by Kathy. Welcome to Girl Stories by the Friends.

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Cathy
No Smoke Shop.

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Sasha
I'm just going to go ahead and start with this question. Did you by chance grow up in a house that believed in ghosts or had a history of ghost storytelling?

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Cathy
I would have to say no. I my parents were very sort of pragmatic scientists, so not that science. And you know, ghosts and things don't overlap at times in general. No, it wasn't like it wasn't a lot of ghost stories except amongst friends. You know, when you get together for sleepovers or go camping or something like that, then you start telling all the ghost stories.

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Sasha
Did you have any friends who crazy things happened when you were together?

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Cathy
I was having a sleepover and we kind of spent the night, like, watching scary movies. And then we went up to my bedroom. I was very young. I was like seven or something. And we shared a bed and we started telling ghost stories and then as I was going off to sleep, it was like I felt sort of this presence.

00:03:03:17 - 00:03:25:19
Cathy
But it was very warm. And I looked up to the, you know, the corner of my bedroom at the ceiling, and I saw the image of my grandfather and he was just sort of I remember the smile on his face and it was just going to be great. You're going to be fine. I miss you, I love you, that kind of thing.

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Cathy
And I said, Sure. I shook my friend and said, Look, it's my great niece here. Do you see him? She's like, No and no. See, he's up there. And I was so excited about it. I mean, it wasn't a negative thing at all, except that she was like, totally freaked out. And because it was so convincing, you know?

00:03:44:27 - 00:03:56:11
Cathy
And I think then she just she called her mom just went home because that was too much for her. And for me, it was the most beautiful thing. So I think kind of experiences on both sides.

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Sasha
So that's that's a very interesting story. So you could see him, but your friend couldn't see him as that?

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Cathy
No, I really had a really specific vision of him. And she saw nothing. She just saw the darkness. So that's why it freaked her out. But for me, it was like beautiful because I missed it so much. And and he hadn't been gone very long. And he was such a huge influence in my life up to that point.

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Cathy
And so it was a beautiful thing for me. But but just the idea of a ghost in my room that he really didn't know and I describe in detail, she was like, Yeah, this is creepy.

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Sasha
And what's interesting about that is so many cultures around the world have that like 30 or 60 days after somebody passes over. A lot of cultures believe they're still there. They're still in the house that that, that it's not quite so quick that spirits don't pass over or aren't kind of gone. Yeah that that quickly And so it sounds to me like your grandfather certainly was there within a month or two after his passing.

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Cathy
Yeah, something like that. But when you think about it, I mean, they really feel like they're still there. You have to. I feel like after somebody has passed away, I feel like you have to remind yourself that they're gone. It feels like they're still in that you feel their presence still. You feel like they're in the other room or something.

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Cathy
I mean, I remember going to my parents place. They and my mother had passed away, but my dad hadn't yet like going there. I stayed there by myself and I absolutely felt them, smelled them, you know, felt their presence in their home while I was there by myself, for sure. And I'm so grateful that I had the opportunity to be there just by myself to like, absorb them.

00:06:06:10 - 00:06:23:18
Cathy
Because the next time I went, we had sold the property and it just they were gone. It was and actually the property, their house was sold with all their furniture and everything. So, so much of their stuff was still there. But they weren't, they were gone. It was a it was a shell.

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Sasha
I said that so interesting. My husband had just lost an aunt who was terribly sick for years with with Lou Gehrig's disease. And it was a very funny thing. Like her night nurses would say, Sally's talking, you know, she's talking to her family like they're in the corner. Like, like it's it's time. It's time. The time is coming.

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Sasha
And it didn't come that quickly. She was she was quite ill and deteriorating at home for a very long time. And the first thing my husband did the night she passed, when he went, he was like, she's so gone. Like the next day in the apartment. Like.

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Cathy
You're going to your point.

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Sasha
Like, she just vanished instantly, I said. And then I think so much a part of that was being sick and being in a body that was deteriorating, not being able to move around your apartment, touch your things, do all of that interesting residual energy that that you can feel that's left behind. So speaking of ghost stories, obviously later in your life, you would grow up, become a huge television and movie star.

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Cathy
And I know. All right. Yeah.

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Sasha
And certainly your you're very well known for Night of the Comet, which is a post-apocalyptic zombie. Amazing movie. Have you made any did you make any ghost story? Did you do any ghost story or or horror film and television?

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Cathy
I did a couple of Outer limits and a couple of twilight zones years and years ago. But so so there's always kind of a spooky element to those I found with like the Outer Limits especially. They were very sort of futuristic kind of stories, stories that kind of took this look into the future and had this kind of scary bent to them.

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Cathy
Like one was called Unnatural selection, where it's in the future and you can choose if you if you wanted to have a baby, you can choose sort of the DNA of your baby. So you go through this process where they where they check like your DNA and your husband's DNA, and they'll tell you what your baby's going to be like.

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Cathy
And in this particular case, it showed that our baby was going to be kind of a loser and not very bright and physically kind of utterly. So we decided to go to this place and get this injection when I was pregnant. That would create this, like theoretically supernatural human being. Well, as it turns out in the story, our neighbors had done the same thing.

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Cathy
And four years later, it was kind of a creepy household. They would never let anybody into the home because unbeknownst to anyone, they were kind of hiding their child. They had gotten the same injection and the child turned out to be completely just crazy creepy, deformed, violent, every possible thing you could possibly think of. And then you hear like these whales and screams and things from the house with like, what could that be?

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Cathy
You know? And after I get this procedure, I realized that that that is what had happened to the they probably told some story about having a miscarriage or something. But what it actually happened with the baby and the kid was like 12 years old by now. And we're sitting there pregnant with having had the procedure going on. So it was very, very creepy because you hear these stories about, you know, sort of mixing up DNA to create the perfect little baby.

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Cathy
And that's what the story was about. And the other one was about in the future, where sort of the help or you can hire a robot to kind of help around the house. But what happens is the robot robot starts completely taking over and calling on all of your sort of faults like, as it turns out, I'm a total I'm a mother of two and Tom Arnold plays my husband and we're our relationship is not good.

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Cathy
I'm a total alcoholic. And the the robot kind of calls me out on and sort of blackmails me with this information. So it's like a high, you know, taking over. It's sort of an old sort of version of what we're starting to see Bel Air. So scares me. But yeah, those were really, really sort of creepy, creepy stories.

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Sasha
So you bring up a really, really interesting point, which it always seems to me that artists and writers, filmmakers, the people who create stories, write for society at large or always seem to be picking up on things before they actually manifest in real life. So with both of those cases, both with the DNA and and also with the AI and all of the horrifying consequences, that's exactly what what we're all kind of grappling with right now.

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Sasha
And it is it's kind of terrifying, this idea that you could upload consciousness that perhaps that perhaps even ghost stories. Right. The idea that maybe someday we'll never die, that that our consciousness can be uploaded, that avatars of us will be around haunting our children.

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Cathy
Yeah. my God. No kidding. I would be absolute. I can totally see that. I mean, the ghost stories can really manifest themselves in their eyes. Ghosts can manifest themselves in AI. And. And then, you know, it's not just a story anymore, right? It's reality. And that that's a very interesting point, because who knows if they would manifest themselves in a positive way or negative way.

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Sasha
Exactly.

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Cathy
And definitely, yeah. Penetrate like people's homes in their lives in really creepy, strange ways and.

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Sasha
And and we are and because and it's a funny thing because even technology like the big technology like the way our phones are listening or the Alexa devices are listening in and the way that we can all that in and of itself. I it feels very unnerving.

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Cathy
It is. If you think too much about it, it cracks me up when people I mean, I don't know, but, you know, with the whole COVID thing and getting it shot for for COVID and they would say we're implanting blood into your blood so they can follow you, whoever they are, and why they would want to do that in the first place.

00:13:47:03 - 00:14:09:21
Cathy
But the question is, do you have a cell phone? Do you have the Internet? I mean, there's it's not just coincidence that you look up, you know, a wolf sweater or something. And then for the next month, you get as constantly for wool sweaters. Yeah, I mean, that's done. But we're just sort of naive about it. We love to make up.

00:14:09:23 - 00:14:17:00
Cathy
You know, I don't no reasons to whatever. But it's it but but it's a funny.

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Sasha
Thing because I had a guest on not too long ago who was talking about here. She was saying I don't believe in in ghosts and I'll tell you why. I don't want to think that my dead relatives are watching me naked and watching me see, see what I'm doing.

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Cathy
Making things naked, because they've probably never seen a naked body before. But that aside, yeah, that would be kind of creepy. I never thought of that. I have to say it's kind of fun.

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Sasha
But if you think about the fact that if you log on to anything pornographic online, you're probably being tracked, right? Like.

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Cathy
I mean, it's literally the reason. Well, not that I'm that interested in it. It's literally a big reason I would never go on to a photography site, even if I was just like, What is that all about? Anyway, it'd be like because somebody it would be there forever and ever that I done that. And it's so crazy. Well, you're good.

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Sasha
I don't let that stop me. I still log on, but.

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Cathy
I don't think.

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Sasha
So. You even Alfred Hitchcock presents, didn't you?

00:15:26:13 - 00:15:58:09
Cathy
Yeah, I did. I did. The new Alfred Hitchcock presents. And, you know, they're Alfred Hitchcock generally are these. Of course, these are psychological dramas, basically. And I play this architect who is overworked, and I'm struggling with this project that I've got to get done and not sleep and I'm not eating and I have this little sister who is an actress and she's taking acting lessons and she shows up and we live together in this apartment.

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Cathy
She shows up in this apartment with an acting partner. And they do this scene where the acting partner dies or something horrible happens. But it's so convincing, I believe her. And then it's so it's a horrible thing. I'm exhausted and she's doing this thing and this guy dies in our apartment and I believe her. And it creates all this stress.

00:16:24:11 - 00:16:45:19
Cathy
And then the guy gets up and just it was like, Do you believe it? And I'm like, I can't believe you're doing this to me. So this happens a couple of more times until the end. I guess the third act is she I don't know if I should give it all away, but she she says that somebody is following her and she's really, really scared.

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Cathy
And by this time, I'm like, I can't deal with you right now. Leave me alone. This is not going to you know, you're not going to fool me this time. Take your acting class. Just leave me alone. I've got this huge project to work on, and all of a sudden this guy breaks into the apartment with a gun and he's got a mask on, and he grabs the girl and he's threatening her.

00:17:08:16 - 00:17:29:17
Cathy
Whatever. And I still don't believe her. So I like he calls again, and I have to cut out this. It's just so funny that, you know, I just don't believe it. I think it's a fake thing. And she's like, what do you do? You know, be careful with a gun. Gun And I said, I know that this is fake.

00:17:29:23 - 00:17:53:06
Cathy
And I hold it up because I hit watch. And that's when it ends. I know, I know. So it's like a cry wolf, kind of a theme, you know? And then that's when it stops. So it's pretty darn crazy. my God. It's so much love It just like. Yeah.

00:17:53:08 - 00:17:58:08
Sasha
wait, wait. So the little sister is literally punking you through the whole episode, Jumping.

00:17:58:08 - 00:18:24:04
Cathy
Me through the whole episode until the very end when she's telling the truth and it's like this life threatening situation. I don't believe her. Cause why would I believe her now? She's been lying all the time or acting so. And so. That's so much fun. Those you don't see those kind of shows anymore. I mean, The Outer Limits, Alfred Hitchcock presents.

00:18:24:09 - 00:18:28:27
Cathy
Well, you don't see TV anymore. There is. There's not TV in the way.

00:18:28:27 - 00:18:53:22
Sasha
There was no I mean, I feel like I feel like Black Mirror is an example is kind of close to a modern. Yeah. Of that And it's certainly like certainly talking about all of the all of the creepy stuff that it's so funny that it just we go back to technology as being the creepy thing really more the ghosts and the machines that we're all using that we're kind of slaves to right now.

00:18:53:22 - 00:19:23:21
Cathy
I know because it's accelerating at such a pace that it it it's out of I believe it's already out of control and now, you know, we started talking about I might like regularly, maybe a year ago and now it's it's like it's every where and and you hear ads talking about how I will help you improve your business.

00:19:23:21 - 00:19:36:00
Cathy
And it's everywhere. And it's just accelerating, accelerating, accelerating. And it just doesn't feel like anybody really has control over it. So it's a little it's scary. It's kind of scary.

00:19:36:02 - 00:20:10:23
Sasha
I saw a strange thing on on The New York Times last night that you can now now, because it is because we're recording this in in December. It's the Christmas season, the holiday season. You can now listen to Jimmy Stewart tell you Christmas stories, except it's not really Jimmy Stewart. It's his voice crap together through I kind of like, you know, looking at like Carrie Fisher, you know, the pieces of her in the Star Wars movies.

00:20:10:25 - 00:20:26:25
Sasha
So what do you what do you think as a as an actor, as someone whose image is really out there, What what do you do you think about that and what scares you about that, if anything?

00:20:26:28 - 00:21:01:06
Cathy
Well, I mean, it's very scary. I mean, we're we're at a real turning point here in for especially for performers of all kinds from, you know, narrators to who make their living at narrating. And now they're not necessary. I mean, it's so funny you say that because my husband was saying I just saw and I found this thing about Jimmy Stewart reading stories that are supposed to help put you to sleep.

00:21:01:08 - 00:21:31:27
Cathy
And it's not Jimmy Stewart to say hi. And I was like, I mean, he's not even around to defend himself. I mean, you know, in our union actors union, we've been trying to deal with it on some level. Again, it's accelerating so fast and it's it's almost impossible, I would think, ultimately to trace if somebody like extras, even, you know, they've been using CGI extras for a long time and CGI set.

00:21:31:28 - 00:22:07:03
Cathy
So things like that. But people make a living at this and they're just going to be eliminated. Comedians have really been very, very nervous scriptwriters, you know, I mean, you can you can put in, you know, so-and-so style murder mystery feature film. And like in 10 minutes you got a script as opposed to the months and months and you know that it takes to write a script and then you write it over again and over again and over again.

00:22:07:06 - 00:22:27:19
Cathy
The only solace I have is that it just might not seem so human. But again, then you see, I mean, I think a lot of us have seen this Tom Cruise thing where he's a I some guy is acting as Tom Cruise. He's got a similar body and they stick his face on there and his voice.

00:22:27:22 - 00:23:07:05
Sasha
What makes me nervous about this stuff and as a as a tarot author is tarot deck creator, something that that I've seen happen profusely is illegally copied and distributed tarot decks. Right. And these are going into entire foreign markets. Like it's one thing like when we're just talking about like the Internet that we're all looking at, right? But when you're looking at other parts of the world where there's no way to legislate or protect Tom Cruise is like our air is being used for something like what are the legal restraints with that?

00:23:07:05 - 00:23:24:12
Sasha
Like, I can't stop. People are making thousands of dollars off of my tarot decks, my public, where all our hands are tied, you know, And that's that's not even a I generated. That's just the ability to copy and distribute and put up a store online and pretend you're whoever you are. It's just wild.

00:23:24:12 - 00:23:52:27
Cathy
I don't know. Yeah, it's crazy. And then, of course, it gets into the whole political thing where the fake news and they they show there's something on the news where there was like a fake explosion at the Pentagon. And they said that the like the Dow Jones dropped like 17,000% or something when that was like or points percent, whatever it is.

00:23:52:27 - 00:24:14:19
Cathy
I don't know a lot about that stuff, but it's really consequential and very, very easy to do. Like politicians, you know, giving speeches and it's not really them. And then, of course, the whole it's it's it's creepy. It's getting into dangerous aspects of our lives, for sure.

00:24:14:21 - 00:24:36:16
Sasha
But I think is fascinating about this is it does hype the ghost stories because what's the first thing right that anybody will ask you or what's the first thing you even try and differentiate for yourself? Say it's the middle of the night and you wake up and you think you see someone say, standing at the foot of your bed, and then you look back in, they're gone.

00:24:36:16 - 00:24:59:06
Sasha
And you say, Did did I really see that? Was that real? Right. And it's almost as if you have to now ask the same and I'm guilty of it. I mean, I just posted on my story this ridiculous filter that made me look like a supermodel. And I was like, having fun with it. Right? And then people responding to it as if it was real.

00:24:59:06 - 00:25:05:25
Sasha
And I had to write back and say, it's a filter. Like, thank you. But that's really.

00:25:05:28 - 00:25:06:29
Cathy
All.

00:25:07:01 - 00:25:24:25
Sasha
So it's almost it's so it's interesting that that now we're having to ask ourselves the same questions that we would ask when we think maybe we've had a ghostly experience. Did I see something that was real or was it my imagination or was it fake or was it I don't know. Was it a.

00:25:24:25 - 00:25:26:09
Cathy
Trick?

00:25:26:12 - 00:25:26:28
Sasha
You know?

00:25:26:28 - 00:25:55:29
Cathy
And yeah, I mean, I think that as I develops, they will. I mean, that sort of a thing that's sort of a vision or image will be more and more real and again, more and more out of our hands. I think, you know, we can in our imaginations are so complex that we can either create or manifest or something, lots and lots of different things.

00:25:55:29 - 00:26:19:19
Cathy
And then you can sort of debate whether it's real or whether it's not real. But I think I feel like at a certain point, like the point you brought up earlier or, you know, relatives who have died, I mean, it doesn't seem crazy to me at all that instead of having to look at a photo album, you can just bring up an image of the person and hold a conversation with them.

00:26:19:19 - 00:26:46:04
Cathy
You know, I can see that 100%, and that's maybe the most benevolent way of looking at the whole thing. But but who knows where that could go? I mean, it could then maybe be able to turn itself on the the most unexpected times or something like that. Yeah. So it's an interesting, interesting concept. And interesting thing to think about.

00:26:46:10 - 00:27:10:00
Cathy
But also going back to, you know, so many shows that have sort of sci fi, you know, shows that have kind of talked about what might happen in the future. Even when sci fi first existed. They were they were trying to predict the future. And it's kind of incredible how much sci fi has come true.

00:27:10:02 - 00:27:34:13
Sasha
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. For sure. For sure. So I have to ask you, when you are playing something that is spooky or when you're even playing something that's life and death, or say, I don't know, you're wired up with a bunch of squibs and have to fake your own death or, I don't know, murder someone. Do you feel like you take that work home with you?

00:27:34:13 - 00:27:45:21
Sasha
Is is there a gray area where the characters that you're playing begin to invade your real life and have friends ever and family and loved ones ever commented on it for you?

00:27:45:23 - 00:28:15:28
Cathy
What? Yeah, well, certainly I think so. I do think so. Certainly when I'm preparing roles, I mean, my husband will say, well, she's on planet sets boss likes as being the best boss because you really do have to explore this character. That's not necessary. Eerily who you are every day. I think that every character well I produce certainly has a lot of me in it.

00:28:16:00 - 00:28:45:04
Cathy
But you explore explore elements of yourself that you might not normally share in the real world, which is what's so cool about acting if you're willing to go there because you can go to some pretty crazy places. But it's interesting to see it kind of explore those little you lift up those little rocks that you keep firmly planted on the ground to help with the different characters that you play.

00:28:45:04 - 00:29:14:24
Cathy
You know, I mean, I think all of us and so many dimensions that we don't explore and acting kind of gives you the opportunity to do that. But mostly we sort of keep them all kind of pushed down and we kind of carry on in a civilized sort of way that's acceptable to most people. But there's of course, there's exceptions to that rule as well.

00:29:14:26 - 00:29:42:01
Cathy
People that don't really have the capability of controlling that side of them or whatever. That's when it gets kind of spooky for us. Maybe not for them, but for the we're so generic as a as a as as a as human beings, You know, we accept certain things. We don't accept other things. And people that sort of veer slightly from that, it becomes creepy or unacceptable.

00:29:42:01 - 00:30:34:18
Cathy
And that's it. That's a bit sad, too. I think that's I think in general, we're trying to as human beings, trying to open up the idea that it's okay to be a little strange, like not completely the norm. And I feel like also we could get so much from that if we're, you know, we're so wound up and tightly bound, you know, and what we expect and what we think we should do, because I feel like you get outside those those walls or that box, you can learn so much, which in fact, I feel like people who do sort of have this relationship or whatever with ghosts or something that isn't the norm is like

00:30:34:18 - 00:30:37:11
Cathy
we could all learn so much from that.

00:30:37:14 - 00:30:51:16
Sasha
As you're talking, I'll have to ask what? And I always say, every time I go away to make a horror movie, I find like it's always cathartic. For some reason in my low budget movies, I'm always telling men. And so I come home.

00:30:51:19 - 00:30:54:01
Cathy
My husband is completely cleansed.

00:30:54:01 - 00:30:58:09
Sasha
I'm like, what?

00:30:58:11 - 00:31:10:14
Cathy
What? It's a good thing you can do all that in your movies. We should get that out of your system. That's a good thing. It's a really good thing. What when in in and I.

00:31:10:14 - 00:31:21:28
Sasha
Know that you have you've played so many characters, but what has been the most kind of out of bounds and exhilarating role that you've ever played that really pushed you to your.

00:31:21:28 - 00:32:00:00
Cathy
Limits? there are so many elements that can go into that. I think one of the most challenging roles I played was it was I was supposed to be a person that actually had existed. It was a it was a miniseries called Passion in Paradise with Our Man The Sun, and I played a character. It was during the Second World War, but it also involved British royalty and smuggling gold into the Bahamas.

00:32:00:00 - 00:32:46:04
Cathy
There's also there's all sorts of political and just dark stuff going on. But I played this character who whose father is brutally murdered and my lover is blamed for it. So it was extremely emotional. He was a real human being. She had been dead a long time. Books have been written about this whole situation. So that was like just honoring that human being and that whole situation, you know, sort of trying to portray a character in an era that you weren't even born yet in.

00:32:46:04 - 00:33:21:21
Cathy
So that was tough. And, you know, it was it was just it was just very, very challenging physically, mentally, emotionally, everything. What I really have a lot of fun playing is like the alcoholic, middle aged woman who's sort of pissed off at her life up to that. I find that very cathartic. Like they're killing men. I'm just getting drunk.

00:33:21:24 - 00:33:24:26
Sasha
It sounds like Tuesday night.

00:33:24:28 - 00:33:32:13
Cathy
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. This is May, and then I just. Yeah.

00:33:32:15 - 00:33:50:07
Sasha
So. So have you ever have you ever in your real life, not in your creative not in your professional life, but in your real life. Have you ever made contact or had any sort of of an experience with something that seemed to come from the other side?

00:33:50:10 - 00:34:11:09
Cathy
When I was older, I was first in California and I was in, you know, one of my first apartments, and I was so happy being there. I love I really love sort of solitude. I love living by myself. I really because I just feel a lot of freedom with that. I feel like I can do whatever I want.

00:34:11:15 - 00:34:39:12
Cathy
I had a cat, which was great. Buckwheat. My cat. And I just love this little hole, this little apartment. It was it was an older apartment building, two stories, and there was maybe I want to say, like six units. So I knew all my neighbors and it was very a friendly place. I loved it. I loved every minute of it.

00:34:39:14 - 00:35:11:04
Cathy
It was in Westwood, and at that time it was the eighties that it was sort of south of Westwood Village, just a little bit north of Santa monica Boulevard. And it was kind of an iffy area at that time, but it didn't really bother me. I didn't care, but I would put things like plants on my I was on the first floor and like I said, it was only two floors and I put in this big plant on my doorstep and then wake up the next day and it would be gone.

00:35:11:06 - 00:35:49:05
Cathy
I'm like, that's not a good sign. And anyway, one night I was crawling in my bed with Buckwheat, my cat, and she and I used to have this game where I climb into bed and pull the sheets up and get like the head of the bed. And I would with my hand under the sheets, I'd come up and grab her front paws and pull her under the sheets and that, that horrible she wanted to go in the thing and we, we just sort of wrestle under the sheet so that you crawl back out.

00:35:49:05 - 00:36:07:22
Cathy
And she looked forward to have so much fun every night. We used to do that every night. So anyway, we went through our usual ritual. I sort of finished that, turn the light out, so I settled in to go to sleep, close my eyes, and I had been look up. I looked at my bedroom door and normally I just close my bedroom door.

00:36:07:22 - 00:36:33:19
Cathy
I mean, I'm the only person there, but I don't know why. But I looked up and there was ajar a little bit and I guess some of the light off the street was sort of shining on the other room so I could see, you know, the crack of the door. And I had a light get up and close that door and I'll now I says ah roll over again.

00:36:33:21 - 00:37:04:07
Cathy
I think, I don't know, I have to have things just so when I go to bed sometimes. So I looked at it again and literally I don't know how to do this, but I saw these fingers of around the edge of the door. These black pointy nail fingers came around the edge of the door. I was just like, I just I was paralyzed.

00:37:04:09 - 00:37:32:06
Cathy
I was just looking at these fingers and I just I was paralyzed. I was so scared. I was just like I closed my eyes and I was like, What can I do? I don't have any I didn't have any weapons. I had nothing around me. I was like, I don't know what my eyes again and it was gone.

00:37:32:08 - 00:38:07:11
Cathy
And so I got up to the door to up cause nobody there I just I think I closed the door. I locked it. I didn't go out into the room and I crawled back into bed and I don't think I slept that night, but I have no idea what that was to this day. And every time I think of it, I just go, I don't know what that was, but I'm okay.

00:38:07:11 - 00:38:29:11
Cathy
And I survived and everything was like, never happened again. But I'm telling you and I'm. I'm you know, I'm saying earlier that I come from a sort of a pragmatic family. They don't really tell ghost stories that aren't everything is pretty much black and white and very scientific and all that other stuff, which is great. And I'd never had that kind of experience before.

00:38:29:11 - 00:38:35:23
Cathy
That scared me so much. Anyway, No idea what that was.

00:38:35:25 - 00:38:38:18
Sasha
That is horrifying.

00:38:38:21 - 00:38:45:00
Cathy
Horrifying. And I like that. Probably what I would do too, which was like, look in the room.

00:38:45:00 - 00:38:47:07
Sasha
Like I would not go investigate.

00:38:47:10 - 00:39:08:00
Cathy
there was no way I was going to go out of that room. And I of course, I was like listening for footsteps or something, but I didn't hear anything. The next day I saw and came out and there was no sign that I had heard It was mad.

00:39:08:03 - 00:39:20:27
Cathy
And they said it was an older building. It was probably built in like the twenties or thirties maybe It was that kind of era, maybe forties, but maybe it was somebody coming back just to check out.

00:39:21:00 - 00:39:34:08
Sasha
I love the point. It it sounds like an area like it sounds like a Lady Gaga goes like very like a, I don't know, like American Horror Story with the pointy nails.

00:39:34:10 - 00:39:50:05
Cathy
But it was like I mean, I just assumed that it was they were very black, you know, It was like I couldn't see nails per say, but it was just very dark and just there like,

00:39:50:07 - 00:39:52:27
Sasha
That's so, so creepy. Something that.

00:39:53:03 - 00:39:53:17
Cathy
I.

00:39:53:20 - 00:40:16:23
Sasha
Discovered. There's a big difference between talking like doing ghost stories for the crowd and just talking one on one. And, and something that you just reminded me of again, is the little bit of kind of cleansing and like, safe boundaries that that that are important to attract when we're telling stories like ghost stories, like that's really scary.

00:40:16:25 - 00:40:19:11
Cathy
I know.

00:40:19:14 - 00:40:42:10
Sasha
These things. So I'm going to I'm dying to ask you and this is something that I asked every guest who comes on but with no right or wrongs, with no definitive because we're talking about we're talking about. And so I'm looking out the window. It's just started snowing. Big, fat, beautiful snowfall.

00:40:42:12 - 00:40:45:17
Cathy
I haven't kind of hitting it magical.

00:40:45:19 - 00:41:07:27
Sasha
But what is your hunch based on based on your life experience, your creative experience is your imaginative experience. What is your hunch on where we were before we were born and what do you think? What do you think might happen for us when we pass back over.

00:41:08:00 - 00:41:56:23
Cathy
Passed back over? I have first of all, I believe that when we pass over our our afterlife has everything to do with how we let our lives, our life, life, this life. Now, whether there was me before, now or not, I feel like or if there's something there, I feel like it all has to do with how we let our lives in this moment, in this life, in this existence, which, of course is like that.

00:41:56:25 - 00:42:43:03
Cathy
It's a second in time in the big picture. But to me it's so important not only for your own health and well-being, but for everyone around you to live your life in a way that is is benevolent, is positive, Is is observant, is is, is, is is a way of educating people is or sharing experi. It's that passing, you know, passing it forward, all those kind of things.

00:42:43:03 - 00:43:07:08
Cathy
I mean, obviously everybody has bad days and negative days. We can't help it. We get mad, We we lash out and it's a part of human nature. But the big picture is living day to day. First of all, I believe in living in the moment. People ask me, What did you do yesterday? I'm like, Yeah, I have no idea.

00:43:07:10 - 00:43:44:05
Cathy
But living in the moment and making the most of every moment and when you pass, I believe that is the spirit that exists in the universe to the people that knew you, to the people that were close to you, and that, you know, I mean, there are so many people in the world, it's always surprising to me who I just really or critical or they they feel like they're above everyone else or.

00:43:44:07 - 00:44:13:04
Cathy
Yeah, I really mean I have allowed people to influence me and make me feel less than because that's how they behave they are. And, you know, I also believe it's it's rooted in a deep insecurity on their part. But but it still has a negative impact on people who who are exposed to that, you know, and why would you expose somebody to that?

00:44:13:06 - 00:44:57:11
Cathy
So there's so many people and it always surprises me, and I really have never been able to figure out why they would allow and give that much space to something that does that doesn't benefit anybody, including themselves. Ultimately, maybe in a short term it might somehow. But so that's sort of, I feel, the spirituality of the human being that existed during their short moment on Earth is what exists after they've left this whatever this is.

00:44:57:13 - 00:45:31:14
Cathy
Yeah. And were you asking about before. Yeah, I believe I yeah. I also believe, by the way, that, that we are just physically as carbon based animals contribute to the health of the earth after we we pass, you know, physically becoming a part of the earth again. I feel like is the greatest gift. You know, we're trying as hard as we can to destroy that.

00:45:31:14 - 00:45:58:25
Cathy
But I feel like this whole concept of you know, being a being part of the roots of a new tree or something like that, I love that concept being a part of rejuvenating nature in any way that you possibly can, because we're all we're not only are human beings a part of each other, but we're also a part of the earth that we are.

00:45:59:03 - 00:46:03:12
Cathy
We're part of the stars. We're made up of all the same sort of stuff. We're made of Diamond.

00:46:03:12 - 00:46:06:17
Sasha
Flora and star bits like. Yes, exactly.

00:46:06:22 - 00:46:28:00
Cathy
Exactly. We're all carbon based and everything in the universe is carbon based. And so people forget that. And I love that concept. We're just a different form of carbon based existence, you know? So yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, that's lovely.

00:46:28:03 - 00:46:32:25
Sasha
I love it. Catherine Mary Stuart, thank you so much for coming.

00:46:32:25 - 00:46:38:20
Cathy
On Gloucester Fire. My pleasure. Sasha Graham, I'd.

00:46:38:22 - 00:46:42:00
Sasha
Love to have you on again in the future, if you'd be willing.

00:46:42:06 - 00:47:02:02
Cathy
Yes, I'd love to. For sure. Yes, for sure. We could go on and on forever on this, couldn't we? And we could. Over a nice glass of Chardonnay or Sauvignon Blanc. Well, let's say that we were. Yes, absolutely.

00:47:02:04 - 00:47:36:01
Sasha
Thank you so much for being part of Ghost stories by the Fire. Do you have a spooky story? Near-death experience or supernatural happenings you'd like share? I'd love to hear it. Submit your story to Sasha Grammy.com with ghost stories by the fire in the subject line. You might just wind up on this podcast, and if you want to support it and keep the ghost stories coming, head on over to Sasha Grammy.com to check out my books and tarot decks which are available for purchase at your favorite bookseller.

00:47:36:03 - 00:47:58:10
Sasha
The Ghost stories by the Fire theme song is titled Lovely from the original motion picture score of The Deeper You Dig, a film about the lengths a mother will go to to find her daughter's killer, even if that means accepting a curse from beyond the grave. The film and song were created by The Addams Family with lead vocals by Zelda Adams.

00:47:58:13 - 00:48:08:07
Sasha
Stream The Deeper You Dig on Amazon Prime or Tubi. Thanks again for listening. And until next time, I'm saving you a seat at the fire.